Check-Raising

I'm just interested in what people think about check-raising and how they use it. Personally, I'm not a big fan. I think it alerts a player to what you are holding. For example, 25-50 blinds in a tourney, a players raises to 150, small blind calls, you call from the BB with JQs. Flop comes AQQ. Blinds check, preflop raiser bets 300 into 450, small blind folds, you raise to 700. What hand are you planning to trap there and get a call? If he has an ace, then I think check-calling will get another bet out of him on the turn, whereas a raise will probably get him to fold, what hand worse than his can he now put you on? If he was having a stab with TT or JJ, then, again I think you stand to get more with a check-call than a check-raise. The only time I think a player will call the check raise is when he has the Q as well, and he was probably putting lots of money in the pot no matter how you bet.

I think check-raising has its place if you are low stacked and try to get someone to put you all-in, ie: in a situation where once you have done the check-raise, it is too late for your opponent to leave the pot.

And I'm interested - does anyone use the check-raise as a bluff? I do, because otherwise it becomes too obvious a play to use. I think I probably use it more as a bluff than when I have a good hand. I use it when I think the player might have hit something like top pair, where a bet will not get them to fold, but a check-raise can scare them. I like using it to manipulate who can go all-in into a pot. For example - If I am in the big blind in a tourney, a player min. raises to 200. I call with KJs and have 850 left. The pot is now 450. Flop comes 2 5 9. If I go all-in then I am risking 850 for 450. If I decide to have a bluff instead I might go 250, which opens it up for my opponent to go all-in (A common play for a common hand in this situation - two over cards). However, If I check, he goes 250 or so then I feel like I am making a better all-in into 700 than 450. Of course this play can get you trapped but I still think it is good value at the end of a tournament, I basically try to do it when I think my opponent will bet to my check, not go all-in.

These situations are not exact times when I would make check-raise plays, I'm just trying to suggest some situations that might warrant a check-raise bluff etc. So yeah, does anyone check-raise as a bluff/ what do you think about doing it?

Nice post. Check raising is overrated and overused in my opinion. If you always check raise with your big hands, you make it painfully obvious to a skilled opponent what you have, and you allow him to throw his hand away for a minimal loss.

I don't like to use check raise and very rarely use it. The one exception is if someone is betting and I'm calling and I hit my hand on the river. For example if I'm in the big blind and face a small raise with a decent pocket I'll call. Let's say I flop middle pair with the nut flush draw. I'll probably check and call on the flop and turn. Now say I hit the nut flush on the river. Since this guy has bet every time I've checked I'll probably check again and then raise his bet. The reason is that if I bet after checking twice then he'll probably fold figuring I hit the flush. If I check again he's probably going to put me on top pair but since I've been check calling down the line I'm not too confident in my kicker. So if I bet I'll probably lose whatever he would have bet out on the river. The problem with check raising is that you never know if he's going to actually make that bet. Maybe the flush on the board scares him and he'll just check. Maybe he was just trying to buy the blinds all along and doesn't want to risk any more chips. Check raising is a play that I really don't like to use because there are too many chances for bad things to happen. If you do it early then maybe you let them see a free card which they would have normally folded to your bet on the flop. If you do it late then there is a chance that they don't bet at all and you miss the opportunity to pick up some extra chips. The other reason I don't like to use it is that I see it done way too often, especially in low limits. People see it done on TV and think this is the way to play poker. Fact is, it is a very powerful move but one that needs to be used very rarely to be effective, and it must be used in just the right circumstances.

A check raise will usually slow down an aggressive player. It will stop and make him think hmmmm does he have trips or if hes trying a bluff to steal the pot he will fold. Follow it up with another strong bet and he still may stay in the hand if he has alot of outs or what he thinks is a winning hand but you took control of the betting.

id agree with this for the most part. The only benefit being that on occasion you could steal a pot with it

though its definately overued

i found that out the hard way. The number of times i checked expecting the other guy to raise only to see him check as well showed me that. I lost a lot of money by not betting.

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I would not check-call on the turn if he checked to my check on the flop. And anyway, the situation I explained (player raises and then I call, flop AQQ) is not likely to get a check from the opponent. A pre-flop raiser gets checked to by the big blind on a hell scary looking board? I don't think I'm checking that. Yes, getting a monster on the flop and then checking is a mistake if there is not a high enough likelihood of the opponents betting. You have to pick those different times. I don't think a preflop raiser has picked up a draw on that flop. I think it is more likely that he has an A. Anytime you make a bet, you are betting against multiple possible hands. you must make a bet that is most profitable against all of these hands on average. There is no point hitting trips and overbetting to push out draws.... You'll likely also be pushing out two pairs as well. To make money, you need to get calls sometimes when you have a big hand. Much of the time they will lose, sometimes they will suck out, you just have to be realistic about whether they got lucky or whether you gave them odds.

saying "I'm happy with the pot the way it is" is ridiculous. The size of the current pot MUST be a factor in how hard you will push people, but you are simply taking it to the extreme as many do and become fearful of being sucked out on. I am afraid of ppl sucking out (me losing chips) just as I am afraid of pushing out hands just behind mine (losing potential chips). A balance must be found. This balance, I can assure you has not a lot to do with "but what if you have trip queens, and someone with an A hits a third A to make a better full house???!!!" It is different if there are two callers in a pot vs me and I have QQ, board comes TJQ, 2 spades. Yes, there can many draws there, give them bad odds to keep seeing cards. Good poker players can come up with the most accurate idea of whether there might be draws, what odds the draws would need to call, and make sure the opponents don't get those odds.

I wasn't neccessarily talking about internet players, I'm trying to ask questions regarding correct play and skill. Sure, I definately overbet good hands against online players early cos yes they will call. But it's just stupid to enter a discussion about the finer points of strategy saying "just go all-in cos crap players will just call anyway." Wow, how interesting. I know ppl are capable of making awful calls like that with Q7, but when I pose a question about people's ability to read hands, situation analysis and chip stacks, assume I'm not talking about those players. If we were talking about those players, than there wouldn't be any point discussing detailed points of the game, would there?