Low-limit early tourney consideration

One of the biggest problems I have is how to play high pocket pairs, big aces, or hands of that ilk early in a tourney or SNG. I'll have a hand such as QQ, QK, KK, AQ, and I'll make an intelligent raise preflop -- say 2 to 4 times the BB. At home games when we play tourneys I can do that and generally isolate a player or maybe pick up the blinds (granted we play $20+ buy-ins). Online I find I'll get like 4 or 5 callers. It seems the only way I can win a hand like that is to make some outrageous bet like $200 when the blinds are $15-$30 and pick up the blinds(maybe). Otherwise if I fail to hit on the flop with a hand such as QQ and I see an overcard, all of a sudden my nice pair is likely a dog to someone calling with A-spot or even K-spot.

I've chalked up this lack of respect for preflop raises to the low limits I play. Any thoughts?

__________________
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no holes is a danish." --Ty Webb

I agree I believe the limits you play at dictates the type player(s) you will be facing. When playing at low limit tables ( we all play them ) I find its best to make those people pay dearly to see the flop if I'm holding AA, KK, and even QQ..So your $200 raise ,even thoufgh it sounds outrageous its actually not if thats the competition your up against. Remember with AA, KK, QQ you want action. Not 3 or 4 callers , but you do want some action because most of the time you will have them beat if you can isolate 1 player to call you. As for QK or AK, those are drawing hands and should not be played that agressively. Standard raise and see what hits the flop.

Raise it bigger. Early on in the tournament (the 10/20 or 15/30 level, even the 25/50 level) the old 3 times the big blind doesn't cut it. In level one if I pick up a big pair, I'll make it anywhere between 100 or 200 to go, depending on what position I'm in, and how many people have entered the pot before me.

I tend to disagree with the theory that you should raise it bigger. Lets just use an example. Say you hold QQ. You lead out and bet huge. First thing that might happen is everyone folds. So you just picked up a worthless pot with a big hand. And what if you do get one call then the flop comes Axx. Youre still in the same situation you were in if you bet three times the big blind. So now what? Your probably going to lose more money than you would have.
Then on the other side of the coin. If you just bet the three times the big blind, what if the flop comes something like Q K 3. Chances are your hand is good. And maybe someone hit there K and is willing to push more money into the pot. You could be taking down a very large pot.

Basically, if you dont put in a large amount preflop its easier to get away when you think you are beat, and your likely to have a better customer when you do get more callers and hit a big hand.

I know why your thinking that trust me. I used to bet AA, KK, and QQ aggresively because I was sick of them getting busted. And all it tended to do was get me a very small pot, usually just the blinds. Then if I did get called and the flop was scary, I would either fold and lose my huge bet or try to steal it away and lose more chips.

Even in these smaller buyin tournies overplaying your cards is going to cost you more chips in the long run than it will get for you. Your just losing your chance to catch some sucker who happened to hit a small pair and has no idea your holding an overpair because you only made the standard raise.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

__________________
"I started with nothing. I still have most of it left."

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"

http://live.xbox.com/member/JediSlayer76

theprofessor@texasholdemforums.com

This is what I do and it has worked on the last three tourneys. I wait for the premium hand (AA or KK) and just go all in. If its really early in the tourney you'll probably get a caller. I do this for two reasons. 1 is that I get a good pot (double up maybe) and also I get a certain image of myself to the other players where I can use later to play more loosely.

I agree with Velez because there are normally enough idiots that will call your all in.

However, I agree with what professor said, later in the tourneys.

I just call the big blind on these in the early parts of the tourney. I find that I get a much better return in the long run this way. If I have QQ and an A or K hits on the flop and someone bets big into it I can get out with very little loss. If low cards come on the flop and someone hits a lower pair they are much more likely to bet big into it and give me a big payout for my higher pair which they aren't expecting since I just called and didn't raise.

Late in a tournament it's time to get a lot more aggressive with these hands, but early I play them like I would a marginal hand preflop. I don't know if it is the best strategy but it seems to work well for me. Of course sometimes it does bite you. Had KK busted by a BB holding 74 once when he flopped 2 pair. With no ace on the board and rainbow I was sure I had the best hand and lost a good chunk of my chips. But that situation happens very rarely and either I know I'm dominating and generally get well paid for the hand if someone else catches any part of the flop or I can get out cheap when the board is ugly.

Well, in the low limit tournaments I play ($5), someone ALWAYS calls, in fact, with blinds 10/20 when I raise to 200 I'll get an average of about 3 callers, but sometimes I'll get up to 5 or 6. If a scary flop comes, well, that's too bad, but you're only risking 200 chips to win a pot that could easily double you up. I like taking gambles like this early in the tournament, because the bad players, or 'dead money' is still alive, and I want to be the one to relieve them of their chips.

Of course this doesn't mean that your way of playing it is wrong either. The correct style of play in tournaments is highly personal, and a lot of different ways can work. I like to gamble a little bit early on with the bad players, and I'm more than willing to get all my chips in the middle with them if I feel like I have an edge.

I used to play like that KingGordy. So many people will go all in with real rags in the early parts of a tourney that it makes it hard to play with even solid pockets. But after having my AKs busted by someone calling my big raise with T7o too many times I just limp in early in the tourney. The people who call any raise with any pocket bust out quickly and it's much easier to take them down when you've seen the flop and know you have them beat. That's the way I've come to play anyway, but like you said, it is a highly personal thing and there are a lot of different ways that can work. I personally like the later stages of the tournaments when there are mostly solid players left and I can get better reads on people. At that point when I push in 3 or 4 times the BB with my AKs I can be reasonably sure that my opponent has a strong pocket when he calls.