a myth about pre-flop all-in calls

Hands are not always as simple as they seem. A player with 55 bets an all-in
pre-flop and is called by AKo and we tend to think that the AKo call is a solid
call...where if 86o made the same call we would tend to think of it as a foolish
call...in reality 86o has a better chance of beating 55 than AKo does as does 87o 89o, 8To, 8Jo and 8Qo...in fact AKo only has a 6 tenths of one percent favorite over beating 55 than K8o or A8o would have. The only foolish part about the 86o all-in call is that it was unaware that the all-in bet was made by pockets lower than 86.

Once an all-in hand is exposed where a player has pp it does not make much difference how much higher the opponents unpaired hand is...what makes the difference is..if the unpaired hand is hit and the paired hand does not hit...it is as simple as that!...and Big Slick is not always as strong as it seems it is.

It actually does matter in a way what the pp is.If u call a KK with J10 1 pair wont win,but if you call an 88 with J10 1 card will win it .So in some situations one card will win an all in vs. PP where in others 2 or more will be needed.Which lessens your chances of winning.
The 86 hand blew me away c.s Ive never thought about it in that context b4.Youre thinking posts are always fun for me to read.You make me think!!!

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Oh I agree xtra...the danger is finding out what the all-in better has...it has to be lower than your pockets and preferably not paired. But once you find out than yours is higher, it doesn't make much difference how much higher!

Very interesting stuff. I agree with all but one thing. I cant see how the 8Qo has a better chance than the AKo of beating 55. I believe the odds would be the same for the 8Qo as the AKo. The 87,89,8-10,& 8-Jo all have the 2 cards to an open ended str8 draw. but the 8Qo would need 3 to complete the str8 (9,10,J) as would the AKo (10,J,Q) and both being overcards to the 55 makes them even. I think?

8Qo is a 45.5% dog to the 55...where AKo is a 45% dog...meaning 55 would have a 55% or 54.5% advantage. I believe that where you will find the difference is in the str8 area...AK will be backed up against the wall on broadway where 8Q will always have both ends open.

Lol Crapshoot, you speak the truth my friend, but i think that the point is somewhat lost. Did anyone see that movie last night about the neurologist doctor, with hugh grant and Lex Luther(He played lex luther in the original superman movies, dont know his real name) Anyway Lex Luther's character was killing homeless ppl to research revolutionary treatment for people with paralysis - Dammit im off on a tangent again, but the point is the same. Why is it this moral question keeps coming up in every post! Needs of many outweigh needs of few - and yet humanity is completely and utterly opposed to it - pisses me off but anyway - there i go again.

I think That it is a hard thing which you are saying and i dont think you should be saying this rubbish especially without properly explaining your reasons! Many New Players coming to this site may get confused about what it is your actually saying, and the last thing we want is people thinking 8,6 is better than AK. The point being, that IT IS ONLY BETTER if you are playing against a 55, and not agianst each other. Its like you get in sport, why is it Team A can smash Team B, and Team B and Smash Team C, but Team C always Beat Team A!! I mean Its confusing, especially if you add more in then you have to start using logic crap that you learn if you study math related subjects, and use complex equations, and have loads of other crap like that. Has anyone ever seen that orange advert? The one where they say "the waters always warmer wround the wise man" its a tongue twister it really is, always makes me laugh, rofl

AK is better than 86
In a Hand with 3 players AK, 55, 86 55 is obvsly the best, The chances that 86 has to beat 55 is pretty equal to AK, AK has the lower straight option only, but the 86 has a higher and lower straight chance, however the lower straight including a 5 is low because there are 2 fives already seen. If you get my meaning.

Zaphor, Holdem is a complex game and complex situations have to be looked at. THF is not a forum for beginners only and in discussing the game with members that know the game...we can't restrict ourselves to only writing about situations that rookies will not take the wrong way!

agree i do. But you post is somewhat cryptic

Both are overcards to the 55 and both would need runner, runner, runner in order to complete the str8. there is 3 cards from the 8 to the Q so the open ended point is mute. I think?