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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Advice & Strategy > Theory, Advice, Strategies

Is QQ weaker than 22 in an all-in?

Theory, Advice, Strategies

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Old 04-11-2005, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra
If you go 22 against AQ instead of QQ then it gives your opponet another card to beat you with and you another with the 2 as well.L Like you said the caller aginst a QQ all in likeky has a Q because they called the big raise,however isnt it just as likely that a hi card with a low kicker(2) was folded.Thus giving your QQ a better chance.
Well xtra i see your point about the high card 2 kicker being folded...but just as easy a Q low kicker could also have been folded.
  
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Old 04-11-2005, 10:20 PM
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well, it sounds like you have a plan and it seems to be working.....no one ever said that everyone must play the same......but mathmatically it is a mistake to prefer 22 or any mid pair over QQ...now maybe in the short term you will do better with 22 but over the long term, if both are played properly, you will not do better with 22 than with QQ. Again, it all comes back to the math.
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Old 04-11-2005, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotiaTheOne
yeah thats fair enough. another silly point: if your opponent has 33 and you are heads up all in, you having 44 is as good as kk... innit
I agree with Frankie. Pocket pair is better than that card and a higher card. ie.QQ vs AQ or KQ. I hate math so im not going to get into odds but i'll take my chances with pocket jacks or above. ScotiatheOne also makes an interesting point in which 44 is as good as kk heds up. Thought bout that one for a while and it isn't entirely true. There are 4 possibilites for a staright with pocket 4s(A2345, 23456, 34567, 45678), and there are only 2 possibilites with kings(910JQK, 10JQKA). So, in relaity, pocket 4s are BETTER than pocket kings HEADS UP. Just some food for thought.
  
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:29 AM
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In reality QQ matches up against AQ much better than 22...however 22 is much closer to QQ against AK...QQ has around a 4% advantage

However Martinez 44 is a big dog to KK....KK has over 60% advantage

Last edited by CRAPSHOOT; 04-12-2005 at 12:43 AM.
  
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAPSHOOT
However Martinez 44 is a big dog to KK....KK has over 60% advantage
Not heads up it doesn't...I think?(not sure)

Last edited by Martinez760; 04-12-2005 at 12:49 AM. Reason: correction
  
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinez760
Not heads up it doesn't...I think?(not sure)
Yes heads up KK vs 44 --- 60%+
now 44 vs KK against AA --- 44 has a slight advantage
  
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:56 AM
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ABSOULTELY NOT!!!!

Simply put here are the pre-flop odds of QQ v. 22 in a heads up situation. In this scenario, I've assumed the suits are the same (both hands hold heart, diamond).

PRE-FLOP ODDS:
QQ - 82.2%
22 - 17.2%
tie - 0.6%

There you go, you are 4:1 to win with QQ v. 22.

Hope this helps!
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake18
ABSOULTELY NOT!!!!

Simply put here are the pre-flop odds of QQ v. 22 in a heads up situation. In this scenario, I've assumed the suits are the same (both hands hold heart, diamond).

PRE-FLOP ODDS:
QQ - 82.2%
22 - 17.2%
tie - 0.6%

There you go, you are 4:1 to win with QQ v. 22.

Hope this helps!
Jake...your missing the point...its not QQ against 22
its how does QQ match up to AK...vs a 22 mach up against AK
in other words which pair would you rather have to go against AK...QQ or 22...it is close to a toss-up (4 percentage points difference)
  
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAPSHOOT
Jake...your missing the point...its not QQ against 22
its how does QQ match up to AK...vs a 22 mach up against AK
in other words which pair would you rather have to go against AK...QQ or 22...it is close to a toss-up (4 percentage points difference)
Just a second while I take my foot out of my mouth. Thanks for the clarification CRAPSHOOT.

Either way, you still have a slight advantage because you already have a hand other than high card. As most players, I would prefer to have the high PP, but being able to discern whether one hand is better than the other is going to rely on the luck of the cards that fall on the flop, turn, and river. The higher PP gives the advantage of holding a higher pair pre-flop over your opponent (say J-J), but anyone can make a set to change the hand.

I typically have bad luck w/ QQ, but have taken down sizeable pots on occasion. You can only hope your wager is high enough with the QQ, you force the other pp's out.

Here are the correct odds, just as CRAPSHOOT said (~4% advantage holding the higher PP).

2d2h 51.9%
AdKh 47.4%
tie 0.7%

QdQh 56.1%
AdKh 43.4%
tie 0.5%

Sorry for the mixup.
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:33 AM
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Yes jake I agree it is nicer to have the higher pair going against the unknown...I guess that what I am always trying to get accross is .... don't laugh when someone goes all-in with 22.

And I, like you...have had very bad luck with QQ, but I am still looking for my sizable pot to take down with them.
  
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