ethics and ettiquette in freerolls

There don't seem to be any guidelines for players to follow and I wonder if this forum could come to a consensus of what is acceptable and what is desirable in terms of conduct. I propose to mention some key topics within this and will post my own views in subsequent posts

1 The way people play
A) A lot of people have problems with sit outs and want ways of stopping them from playing

B) A lot of people have problems with those who go all in almost every hand near the start of a tourney.

c) what about pauses - in some games like bridge players are not allowed to pause unduely for any decision during bidding and whilst the two games are quite different do people have a problem with deliberate slow play

2 - What people say
a) is it acceptible to give abuse to other players and if so how much

b) what language is acceptable eg swearing, sexual innuendo

c) what about "lying" about what you hold to get others to fold or bet - such as the old "got to go got 27" that annoyed a forum member so in the heats this week

d) what about agreeing things with people at table such as "lets steal the sit outs blinds" - This is a dodgy one as some posters have suggested certain plays are against the rules and I would be interested to know what the "legal" position is as well.

e) what about observer chat - what is appropriate and what is not

i wasnt sure if you meant in general of specific to THF so ive answered specific to THF

theres little we can do - this happens at every poker site on the web

thats poker!


not sure what you mean mate

im personally not a fan of talking trash at the table. I know some people love doing it and its part of their game. Personally i dont want it at our games as its been shown that members hold a grudge and bring their beef with them to the forum

depends on the context i guess

suppose this is the same ballpark as talking trash - again, its part of some peoples game but id prefer they didnt do it at our tournaments

difficult one - players will obviously say they were joking or whatever

i dont like people coming on and talking trash to players - infact, sometimes i think it would be best if observers werent allowed to talk.

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MY SPIN
1A it's a stratagy ... live with it
1B Let me get some good cards And I'll take there money!
1C It's annoying ... live with it
2A If your going to dish it out... expect to get some back
2B Depends if I am winning or losing
2C Don't care what they are saying ... I play my cards... If it is someone lookingh to leave tell them to go all-in less 5 then drop. have a good hand in case they don't!
2D If there are 2 players and 6 sitters.... You're damn right I'm going to play lets make a deal on the blinds/entee
2E Observing chatters are like tokyo rose... lots of chatter, yet, nothing worth listening to.

1c) as for pausing - i mean a player pausing when it is their turn and they are not thinking about what to do. Normally this is fake pausing (pausing to make people think i am thinking when folding/raising/calling is clear.

One example of play that annoyed me although I didnt feel it was reprehencible play to do was one guy deliberately using his full allocated time EVERY time to slow down the game and annoy people into calling him when he actually had a hand to try to knock him out. I have only seen one guy do this but it worked very well as a strategy for him.

Will post my own views tonight/tomorrow

1A- I know on some sites they throw you out after first blind if you are sitting out, I like this idea

1B - Its a good way for a decent player to double up, Just hope you dont get caught!!!

1C - You know im not the fastest player but if someone tells me to hurry up my play I will use maximum time just out of spite, when getting close to final table/ in the money i slow play down as much as I can let other people get knocked out(unethical tactics maybe but I can live with them)

2A - Abuse i dont agree with, Friendly banter not millecous(sorry can't spell) is good fun as long as the line isn't crossed

2B - swearing and sexual innuendo I dont agree with but see 2A

2C - Cheaters never prosper(well thats the theory)

2D - I would share sit outs seats if they dont want to sit in why should I make the effort and go out before them, If its cheating/colluding I wouldnt think the sites would be to annoyed with this as it happens a lot

2E - Observer chat is ok I talk to lots of people as an observer or as a player I dont think it should be allowed at final tables except in breaks. I know some sites dont allow observer chat at final tables

I think goading, going all in with every hand, lying, collusion, if your a strong player you shouldn't have to resort to the tactics and if i was at the same table as them i'd personally take the time to set them up at the table or beat the crap out of them, depending how i felt that day.

None of it really bothers me that much really. I mean I dont like it when you get someone at your table who is there just to talk crap but I just ignore them or disable the chat. All the other stuff is perfectly legal ( except the collusion to steal blinds but the way I see it, the players were essentially cheated out of an opportunity to play a full game with all players at the table so I just think they are making lemonade out of lemons)...The only thing the reaaaaally bothers me is when people start to stall when you get close to the money ( but not hand for hand play yet). It just really irritates me for some reason. Nuts up for christ sake. I hate when people just try and scrape by and dont try and win the damn thing. But, it is perfectly legal so I deal with it. The sexual innuendo is cool with me as long as it is coming from a girl. lol. Especially that girl on the far left on party poker with the yellow tank top and black braids.

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Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

hey ben, I know that taking all the alloted time is almost unbearable. Just curious as to how many players were sitting out. I had the same thing happen to me and the guy claimed he was using all the time up to increase blinds to try and take the squatters out earlier. It did not seem to help other than pissing every one else off.

Ok folks here's where i stand

I have no problems with 1a) or b) I think both approaches are perfectly ok by me but I think in freerolls that players should be removed if they havent played a hand in the first 10min or so of play. As far as I am conserned if they have played even one hand (i.e. sat in and folded) then I am happy with them being kept in. Sitting out at any other time does make things less fun for other players but is a legitimate and ethical tactic.
1b) is just a bad strategy and i have no problem with it ethically.
c) most poker sites work on a time bank basis so the waiting time outwith time bank is not too onerous. Unfortunately UB isn't one of them but fortunately the tactic maximising time taken to maximise annoyance is rarely adopted and to me is clearly an unethical approach. You can always turn text off it is annoying you but to this there is no defence. Otherwise I don't like people pausing when no thinking is taking place but whether this because it interferes with my reads of players card holdings or because it is unethical i am not certain.

2a) I must say there are times when I enjoy abusing players and receiving abuse - it is part of the pleasure I get from playing poker. I think it is a legitimate strategy as a way of getting reads and making players adjust their style of play. It should never be too nasty or too percistant though and malicious chat is always inappropriate. Observer abuse should be kept to a mimimum and any stalking of people to abuse them is clearly bad ettequette.
b) i personally dont like more than a small amount of swearing and think it is important for people to realise even if the player you are talking to doesnt find it offensive others might. I dont like seeing racist, sexist or otherwise bigoted stuff being typed and would wish people would see the childishness in calling someone gay etc. Any swearing etc is bad ettiquette but sustained is possibly even unethical
c) I have no problem with this sort of play. Anything typed that is not offensive that helps to either get a read off a player or get an action is totally acceptable and legitimate and valid. Without visual reads text is sometimes the next best thing. I have more of a problem with those who call someones claim of 27os rather than those who say it. Are the callers not trying to collude - clearly unethical as far as i am conserned. They are trying to get an advantage over other players by illegitimate means. I can remember a hand where someone honestly had to leave and kept going all in. I reluctantly called with KK with two left to play. One other called with AA and knocked me and the all in guy out. I would have slowplayed KK and might well have avoided defeat, I will never know. People who have to leave should just sit out. It is slightly off topic but it is much fairer it doesnt make a chip leader out of someone just for being friendly with someone who has to leave. They have to earn it the hard way then.
d) Dont have a problem with others coming to blind grabbing agreements though I will prefer just to win the live players chips in open play. I dont have a problem with this ethically or with say people not trying to steal blinds from a nice low stack in say a top 50 qualify TEC on UB anything much beyond that is unethical but I dont think that it makes enough odds to their chances of success for site administrators to get involved in it. I think people who complain to site administrators should soul search that there motives are pure before filing any offical complains or complaints on this forum (if they are going to name names). Normally they just sound like bad losers
e) some is fine but abusive chat (unless just knocked out by someone) is inappropriate. If it is not reciprocated by those actually playing then observers should have the sense and decency to leave well alone.

Would appreciate further thoughts from people on this matter