Double Gutshot - Can you see it?

I have recently discovered something in poker and that is the Double Gutshot.
I have no idea how many times I would have won a hand in the last year of playing poker but I didn't because I didn't see the Double Gutshot at the flop. A Double Gutshot is basically the same as an Open Ender because you have 8 outs to draw for a straight but you need 3 cards to pull this off at the flop. But its hard to see, let me give you an example.

Lets say your holding 57 and the flop comes 396

this looks like a miss and you should just check fold it right there. Or maybe you see a Gutshot and you think all I need is an 8 for a straight, so you treat the hand like its a Gutshot. But in actual fact a 4 will give you a straight aswell. 8 or a 4 .... 8 outs, a Double Gutshot.

I have studied all the cards you could play and their drawing possibilities, this following information you may find very interesting. What I did was take every No Gap, 1 Gap, 2 Gap and 3 Gap Connector you could play and see what possible 2 cards or 3 cards could come at the flop to give you an 8 out situation with an Open Ender or a Double Gutshot.

Here are my findings and I don't think you will find this anywhere on the net, I couldn't:

No Gap Connectors

----------2 Cards----3 Cards
45<->10J----3----------2
34,JQ--------3----------1
23,KQ--------1----------0
A2,AK--------0----------0


1 Gap Connectors

----------2 Cards----3 Cards
57<->108-----2---------4
35,46,J9,Q10--2---------3
24,KJ---------1---------2
A3,AQ---------0--------2


2 Gap Connectors

-----------2 Cards-----3 Cards
58<->107-----1----------4
47,J8---------1----------3
25,36,Q9,K10--1---------2
A4,AJ---------0----------2


3 Gap Connectors

-----------2 Cards----3 Cards
59,610--------0----------4
37,48,J7,Q8---0----------3
A5,26,K9,A10--0----------2

This is why J10 is one of the best connectors to play. I believe that a lot of the time it is over underestimated. You can get 3 possibilities for 2 cards to come on the flop to make an 8 out Open Ender situation or you can get 2 possibilites of 3 cards to come on the flop to have an 8 Out Double Gutshot situation. This is a good hand, if I was holding 22 and my opponent is holding AK I will All In race preflop with this hand its basically 50/50. If I'm holding J10 and I can put my opponent on holding Ace rag like A3 I would race J10 there too All In preflop its basically 50/50 aswell. 109 would be a bit better because there is 1 dead out with my opponent holding an Ace.

I'm not saying you shouldn't play hands like 34, K9 or Q10, I'm just pointing out the strength of these hands drawing possibilities and I think its good to know a connectors drawing power before going in.

What do you think of this advice?

I like double gutshots, simply because if you hit, your opponent most likely would not out you on that hand. They are hard to read and that makes them dangerous. I will actually raise with them sometimes to really throw an opponent off, they may see a gutshot and will never put you on a str8 if you hit it. Who would rereaise with a gutshot? very powerful hands.

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THFSOP Event #4 Champion
THFSOP Event #8 Champion
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Current count: 3 Bracelets

i will play dbl GS draws when blinds are low and almost any time in limit games...they can win ya some big pots, but chase too many and youll be on the rail

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2007 THFSOP LIMIT HOLD' EM CHAMPION

The double gutshot is one of my key hands in NL cash games. The key is that they are so hard to read. Provided your opponent will pay you off, you can sometimes afford to take bad pot odds as your implied odds will more than make up for it. Good stuff.

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Blackinks

Donkey Extraordinaire

"Never understimate the power of stupid people in large groups..." - Daryl "Razor" Reaugh

"I went in with the worst of it... and it held up!" - Alicia M

Truthfully I alway like doule gun shots. I also like playing 9 6, 10 7, 10 K for almost the same reason you have state. Played a game on the weekend where I was dealt 8 5 spades, flop believe it or not 6 7 9 spades. Did nothing but check called, Qh, turnand K spades. Both opponents had spades. One hand from 84 out 112 to 12 out 109. Other table lost one I guess.

So if you open your game a little and the players let you get in cheap to see a flop , turn and river, take it, you never know.

But 6 4, 10 8, 3 5 hands with right flops are great and they can be unsuited to.

Great observation and keep on sharing. You get your post level up also (accuse xtra of showing you the ropes to increase post level).

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COW344

I'm fond of gap connectors over normal connectors for their implied of getting paid off well with the hidden straights. 2 gappers though are too much of long shot and can't see the long term value of calling them cheap or otherwise for the times you lose blinds when they don't make a good flop. Of course I'm refering to rings games.

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3rd Pitbull league June 2007
2nd Pitbull league July 2007

The operative phrase here is "can be". Refer to our starting hands odds guide. The problem becomes evident, all the times you are simply throwing away chips on a low % chance. You have to balance that, not forgetting those really expensive times when you hit your cards and still have the worst hand.

RacingDog you also got put in or underline the getting in cheap to see the flop. Let's face it we need the best bang for our chips.

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COW344