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The Independent Chip Model for SNGs Theory, Advice, Strategies  | | 
08-28-2007, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion  Why do you make assumptions with no knowledge? The program doesn't tell you how to click. you have to learn how to interpret. The game is still mostly player dependent. It's just a small advantage. Why wouldn't you want to be on an even playing field if everyone else is using it? You are at a disadvantage. | Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketplayer I play golf (as a hobby for now but maybe not at 50), I try and improve my swing. Bought a video cmera and golf swing analysis program. OMG this is so wrong, using an electronic aid to improve my HOBBY. | Both of you are right in that tools such as PT can make the game easier, but doesn't make the decisions for you. That said, bumpers make bowling easier.
Okay, a real argument: Let's take player Al, who used PT and Poker Ace HUD, and he is playing at a full handed cash table, which includes Player Barney (hey, it's better than Player A and B). Barney is not using any tools, he is simply observing his opponents play, keeping mental notes of who is passive, aggressive, loose, and tight. Al, on the other hand, is barely paying attention to this game...he is actually 8 tabling and talking to a couple friends on messenger as well. However, because he is using the tools he is using, none of that matters, as whenever he decides if he should stay in a hand, he can see the playing style of each of his opponents, and so he can tell that his QQ just might be beat, since PT and Poker Ace are showing him the reraiser has a VP$IP of only 4%. Now, while Barney may know the reraiser is tight, does he realize just how tight he is? If you say yes...
Then take the argument one step further. Barney is 8-tabling as well, without the tools, just taking what few notes he can in between moves. Now do you think Barney is able to fold his high pocket pair in this position?
I believe tools such as Poker Tracker and Poker Ace are good learning tools, but shouldn't be used as anything more. They give HUGE amounts of information, and those who know how to use that information gain far greater than a slight edge on their opponents.
As for those who say that you should use PT because others are: That's just like saying you should cheat, because the opposing forward is never getting called when he charges (figured I'd put in a basketball analogy for you to end  ).
__________________
1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League
Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame. | | |
08-28-2007, 07:34 AM
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I really think you people are blind.
All who don't use PT... Tell me what hand causes you the worst losses and why?
You can't. No one has the ability to remember all their hands and close all their leaks even with PT or other tools. But PT sure can tell me why I might be overplaying 99 from early position or not to call a PFR raise with AJ too often.
Also how many BB are you making when you get pocket rockets? Don't know do you? Would it make sense to see that maybe you are overplaying them when the board has gone against you? Sure you can try and remember and learn but if the actual facts are there to review, does it not make the learning process MUCH easier?
Would a scientist not like a permanent record of his experiments or would he be served better to use his memory since it would be more pure?
Why the hell do we all have computers now if we don't the technology it provides?
I think if you interviewed any poker pro you see on TV he'd for sure be taking advantage of the tools available online to make him a better player. These are players we all can never hope to approach but they would do so.
Also, live is oh so different then online. Tells online are difficult to pick-up. No movement, facial expressions, and reaction time... well that could just be cyberspace causing a delay.
Documneted records of hands played are there to fill some of those gaps.
Finally, for all of you who think these things are a waste, just do me a favor, turn off the saving of the hand histories that are saved onto your hard drive, afterall, those aren't there live, just trust your memory from now on. | | |
08-28-2007, 08:08 AM
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wow I don't know who rocketplayer is, but I love him. | | |
08-28-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketplayer I really think you people are blind. | Dude now you really are starting to sound up ya' own ass.....!!!!
Not everyone in life chooses the easy option....some like to challenge there selves and learn from true grit and determination in order to make them selves better at what ever they do and not choose the easy option and buy some sort of electrical wizardry in order to aid them (made by some geek in the first place who couldn't do it on his own). in what they do.........In all honesty you seem to be the one with the issue with players that don't use this kit, whereas the ones who don't use it only seem to have issue with you not excepting there point of view.
Maybe all the radio waves sent out from all you gadgets has finally taken toll and fried the reasoning section of your brain....???? 
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08-28-2007, 04:58 PM
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Easy option? Honestly with the comments your brain puts out I'm surprised you don't want every tool you can get to try and eek out a profit.
Using PT or any tool does not mean it is easy. If you are to use these things properly it requires study of hand histories, player's tendancies, your tendancies.
Can you slip by a little by using the basics of it without study? Sure.
But then again, I'm pretty sure you haven't taken the effort to read the some 30 plus poker books sitting in my bookcase either.
If you want a debate make some statements that have merit of move on. | | |
08-28-2007, 05:08 PM
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For the naysayers, have any of you really considered what this program does for you?
This is direct from PT's website and no I have no financial interest in them.
What is Poker Tracker?
Poker Tracker is a Windows based computer program that allows you to analyze your on-line Texas Hold'Em, Omaha, Omaha Hi/Lo, 7 Card Stud, 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo and Razz play. Poker Tracker stores and summarizes hand history data that can be downloaded from your poker site.
What does Poker Tracker have to offer?
The ability to:
Track your ring game and tournament play on multiple poker sites. Do you have an account on many different poker sites? No problem, Poker Tracker will allow you to import hand histories from each site and store them in the same database. Don't worry if your screen names are not the same either, Poker Tracker has a way to let you to combine the stats from multiple sites. For a complete list of supported sites, click here.
Track your starting hands and with the various hand combinations see how many times you:
1) See the flop
2) Raise
3) Win money
4) And much more!
Track your play by position. You can see how many times you call under the gun, from the cut-off, etc. Look at the amount of money you win by position. You can also see how you play short-handed or with a full table.
Track your play by session/tournament.
Track your hand results. You can see how many times you got a flush, full-house, etc. and how much money you made with each hand.
Track your best and worst opponents. Find out whom you've won the most money from and who has won the most money from you.
Track every player you have ever played against and keep detailed notes on each player. You can see how often they see the flop, raise pre-flop, check-raise, win at showdown and much more.
Import from and export to your player notes files. The advanced exporter allows use to export user-defined stats to the notes files so they show up when a player sits at your table.
Auto-rate ring game players. You can setup rules, or use the default rules, to automatically rate players as hands are loaded. Find out instantly who the fish are.
Graphically replay your hands individually or replay entire sessions or even entire tournaments.
The 3rd party add-on programs listed to the left also add to the usefulness of Poker Tracker. GameTime+ and PokerAce HUD are programs that overlay player statistics from your database right on top of the table you are playing.
Most of the on-line poker sites allow you to keep notes on players and will give you statistics for your current session but Poker Tracker provides this and so much more. | | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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