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The Independent Chip Model for SNGs Theory, Advice, Strategies  | | 
08-26-2007, 07:00 PM
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I have some questions about ICM I hope maybe someone with knowledge can answer them?
Is ICM useful for bubble situations in tournaments as well? Is it also used for ITM pay increase bubbles in MTTs? | | |
08-26-2007, 09:20 PM
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why do you insist on telling us how to play and what will make us better players? i use to use PT, but only to keep my own stats. I make a nice profit and enjoy playing, but i dont need those programs. and i dont think i would be any better of a player or make more profit for me.
you dont see live players pulling out all the things that help them play, they use instincts and math.
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08-26-2007, 09:37 PM
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 Quote: |
Originally Posted by Fermion I have some questions about ICM I hope maybe someone with knowledge can answer them?
Is ICM useful for bubble situations in tournaments as well? Is it also used for ITM pay increase bubbles in MTTs? | I have no idea. I'm not that far that I already use the ICM. I posted this because I thought we maybe could get a good discussion going. Hear some pro's and cons but instead it turned out to be a flaming thread. I only wanted to hear some ideas. Quote: |
Originally Posted by rw11687 why do you insist on telling us how to play and what will make us better players? i use to use PT, but only to keep my own stats. I make a nice profit and enjoy playing, but i dont need those programs. and i dont think i would be any better of a player or make more profit for me.
you dont see live players pulling out all the things that help them play, they use instincts and math. | But if they could they would. Not all of them ofcourse but many players would. We are talking online poker here. Your opponent is using all sort of programs to have an advantage. Why don't you want an advantage, poker is difficult enough as it is. Visit any other forum and all will tell you to use PT or PO when playing.
If anyone doesn't want to use any sort of program to help them in the decision making then don't. I'm not telling you should. I'm happy if you are a winner already but some players want to win even more or are not even good enough to profit. | | |
08-26-2007, 11:22 PM
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 Just some light re-freshment to douse the flames. Independent Chip Model
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08-28-2007, 01:40 AM
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Isn't reading a book using a tool.......Now I know I have never read one but I'm pretty sure everyone else in this thread has......So I don't really understand what the difference between using something like PT or this ICM thing is any different to reading any or every poker book out there.
Me personally don't read the books or use the tools ( I own PT but I really don't know how to use it to it fullest and I really can't be arsed to read the help provided by PT, but that's my choice) and I wouldn't care if I was sat on a table against 8 other players who had read all the books and were using all the tools.....I know poker and I know how to play the game, make reads, bluff, steal and anything else you can read about in a book just by playing the game and learning.
If you want to use tools then fair play to you, If you want to read books then also fair play and if you choose to use all either or none of these things to play/improve your poker then that is entirely your choice and regardless what the reasons are that people play this game the one fact that I feel cannot be disputed is the fact that no matter what the reasons are that we play this game......we all want to win......!!!!! 
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Last edited by SonnyChiba; 08-28-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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08-28-2007, 01:41 AM
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08-28-2007, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homeville  It is like the people who do and the people who don't. I choose to play poker, and learn poker, and win poker using skills and common sense. The people who use tools to win poker cannot really say they are winning, they are just making money with no concept of the game. I win, I play, I make money. Do not try to justify using various tools and say you are an expert. Experts and players are just that, they study, learn the game and prosper. |
I'm sorry but that might rank as one of the dumbest comments ever.
Let's see, I'm a CPA, I know how to add and subtract so I won't use a calculator, excel spreadsheet, trial balance and financial statement software to make my perfromance faster and better as how would that improve my math skills?
Gee I am also an investment advisor. I can read charts with the best of them so I won't subscribe to any charting software like TC2000 that could improve my performance as that would not show I knew anything about charting really as I was letting the program do all my thinking for me. | | |
08-28-2007, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketplayer I'm sorry but that might rank as one of the dumbest comments ever.
Let's see, I'm a CPA, I know how to add and subtract so I won't use a calculator, excel spreadsheet, trial balance and financial statement software to make my perfromance faster and better as how would that improve my math skills?
Gee I am also an investment advisor. I can read charts with the best of them so I won't subscribe to any charting software like TC2000 that could improve my performance as that would not show I knew anything about charting really as I was letting the program do all my thinking for me. | I'm not going to get to involved, but you have just dissed my man homes his comment IMO is far from dumb bud, it's an opinion and an informed one at that...just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't make their opinion dumb dude....an intelligent man such as yourself should be more than aware of that.
Every tool you have stated above is to improve you at work.....and to most poker is no more than a hobby so they don't require all the performance tools that you require in order to feel more comfortable playing........I can add and subtract with the best of them but if I had never used a calculator before why should I trouble myself with learning to use this tool that I don't actually require.....I think what most are saying is that they would rather rely on their gut feeling rather than let a piece of software dictate how they make their plays.....I'm not saying either one is right or wrong only that people should respect others decisions on how they wish to play the game, aided or not.
Peace 
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Call Of Duty 4........
Snake_Legend........
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08-28-2007, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homeville It is like the people who do and the people who don't. I choose to play poker, and learn poker, and win poker using skills and common sense. The people who use tools to win poker cannot really say they are winning, they are just making money with no concept of the game. I win, I play, I make money. Do not try to justify using various tools and say you are an expert. Experts and players are just that, they study, learn the game and prosper. | Why do you make assumptions with no knowledge? The program doesn't tell you how to click. you have to learn how to interpret. The game is still mostly player dependent. It's just a small advantage. Why wouldn't you want to be on an even playing field if everyone else is using it? You are at a disadvantage. | | |
08-28-2007, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyChiba I'm not going to get to involved, but you have just dissed my man homes his comment IMO is far from dumb bud, it's an opinion and an informed one at that...just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't make their opinion dumb dude....an intelligent man such as yourself should be more than aware of that.
Every tool you have stated above is to improve you at work.....and to most poker is no more than a hobby so they don't require all the performance tools that you require in order to feel more comfortable playing........I can add and subtract with the best of them but if I had never used a calculator before why should I trouble myself with learning to use this tool that I don't actually require.....I think what most are saying is that they would rather rely on their gut feeling rather than let a piece of software dictate how they make their plays.....I'm not saying either one is right or wrong only that people should respect others decisions on how they wish to play the game, aided or not.
Peace | I play golf (as a hobby for now but maybe not at 50), I try and improve my swing. Bought a video cmera and golf swing analysis program. OMG this is so wrong, using an electronic aid to improve my HOBBY. | | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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