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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Advice & Strategy > Theory, Advice, Strategies

WAS DOYLE WRONG?!? or is this the dumbest post ever?

Theory, Advice, Strategies

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Old 08-08-2006, 06:11 AM
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Talking WAS DOYLE WRONG?!? or is this the dumbest post ever?

Found the THF Poker Calculator.....
http://www.texasholdemforums.com/pok...calculator.php
I couldn't resist a little playing around with it so I decided to enter a hand that Doyle brought up in the original Super System
2 2 versus A K suited
Now according to Doyle, 2 2 is slightly ahead because it is a made hand. He gives an example of burning some college guys down by playing this matchup repeatedly (he took the 2 2.) I got into this debate with a buddy and proceeded to do the same thing to him. I know that the odds are so close that it's more of a coin flip than anything else.
Here's my dillema. When entering the hands into the calculator, it shows the opposite...
2 2 wins 49.6% versus A K suited wins 49.7% with an equal number of ties!!

ok, ok. this is the dumbest post ever . Now pardon me while I impress my friends and frighten my enemies with the claim that I found an error in Doyle's part of Super System!! lol j/k

Last edited by Zac Ray; 09-01-2006 at 06:35 AM. Reason: somebody's gonna take this seriously ><
  
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Old 08-08-2006, 06:23 AM
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I think suited the AK would be ahead odds wise slightly but in a live poker game, not online but a live game i see the small pocket pairs hold up a lot more than 50 percent of the time at least it seems that way. But Doyle is talking about all in preflop or playing the hand out, because if the flop misses and you have your opponent on AK your going to take a lot of those pots betting aggressively after the flop so in that case 22 is going to win more than half the time because the odds move into the favor heavily for the deuces if no Ace or King or huge drawing hand hits on the flop.
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Old 08-08-2006, 08:59 AM
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AKs only has better odds than 22 if both of the twos are not the same suit as the AK

If one of the two is the same suit as the A and K, than the 2s are better.
  
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Old 08-10-2006, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
AKs only has better odds than 22 if both of the twos are not the same suit as the AK

If one of the two is the same suit as the A and K, than the 2s are better.
AKs vs 22 is a slight fav., AKs vs 22 sharing 1 suit, 22 is a slight fav. (we are talking tenths of percentages here), and AKos vs 22, the 22 holds a 5-6% lead, depending on suit mixing.....so in reality, the hands hold about a dead equal value......when heads up against each other, that is....
  
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:23 AM
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one thing i have learned. Doyle is NEVER wrong )
  
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:58 AM
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I might be wrong Zac but I seemed to remember that Doyle chose 2-2 against AK and not specifically AKs. As some of the others have said 2-2 is slightly ahead of AK in all cases - apart from when the Ak is suited and up against twos of different suits. AKhearts against 2clubs-2spades is a very slight favourite.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote from Super System II:

"Once, on a proposition bet, I took the deuces and two other guys took the A-K. The proposition was to play the two hands against one another hot and cold. We simply dealt out five cards to see which hand would win more times. It was an even-money bet, and we bet $500 a hand. I won several thousand before they quit. They weren't convinced the first time, so we did it two or three more times. They'd lose some money and quit. They'd go away, do some homework, come back, and then we'd do it again. And I'd beat them again."

At that point in the book he is referring to AK generically. He discusses the differences between AKs and AKo later in the chapter. I'm quite certain that in his wager with his buddies he was up against a non-suited AK. In fact, knowing Doyle's reputation I'm quite certain he had dueces that didn't match the suits of the ace and king. So I'm guessing he probably had something like 2s2h against Adkc. This gives him a slightly better chance against the overcards because that gives him two shots at a four flush that would be the best hand.
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:27 AM
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Obviously, at a full table, the two hands play very differently, and have very different strengths....
  
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Old 08-18-2006, 02:49 AM
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This was meant to be more of humerous post than anything else but wow, what great responses. I'm sure that the various factors weigh into what amounts to a very small difference when played cold and heads-up and yet I really like the made hand. This is obviously a flaw in my thinking. Doesn't help that I won heavily with the 2s the one time my friend and I tried it.
  
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Old 08-18-2006, 04:55 AM
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well i never win with any pair even aces even if its the same pair i get beat its terrible
  
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