The Bwat & AceHighPino situation

I was out last night and didnt attend the league game. Those of you who attended might have saw the argument between Bwat and AceHigh

Whilst i dont like hiding things from members, i do prefer for matters such as this to be dealt privately. However, there are 3 or 4 threads about this matter on the forum already and i believe its best i address the situation.

There are details of what happened in this thread : BWAT's Behavior

I have just commented on this in the staff room though since i havent heard a reply as yet its worth noting that this is my own view on the matter.

Firstly, i think kikilo hit the nail on the head when he said

I take great pride that our games have a great environment. We all enjoy having a laugh with each other and winding each other up. I got destroyed by ben just last week - he knows i play too tight sometimes and kept reraising me and eventually took a huge pot out of me. With great pleasure may i add....however, it was all in good fun.


This seems to have started by AceHigh saying "BWAT does NOT own" and "Copyrigth 2005". Looking at this i would say that acehigh was just having fun here and didnt mean anything bad by it.

Bwat totally overreacted, lost the plot and starting swearing at everyone. I think this was out of line - i dont like to see swearing or actions such as these at our games and im sure most members here feel the same.

Whilst i dont think Acehigh was out of line initially, his continuing joking and making fun of bwat did very very little to help the situation.

Being brutally honest, i think both bwat and acehigh acted like spoiled kids.

Bwat

There is nothing worst in this world than getting put out by a bad beat and then having people try and laugh at you about it. Ive seen normally passive guys get angry in situations like this. So i do understand how you were feeling.

Bwat, i think you were wrong in the way you reacted to pinos taunting.

More specifically, i was a bit pissed at the way you spoke to J0nah when he came to the table to try and resolve the issue. I think you could have shown him a little more courtesy. He was polite and was just asking what happened - it isnt easy trying to be the peacemaker in these situations.

Bwat, i dont know you too well personally. However, i believe that any person who reacts like that and gets that angry after a little comment like 'BWAT does NOT own' should not be playing poker or gambling. If you do think you have a problem with gambling then please email me and ill do my best to find out some info for you

AceHigh

As i said above, we all enjoy having a joke with each other at the tables. BWAT was completely out of line. Though i think the way you taunted him and laughed at him afterwards was out of line as well.

Its one thing having a laugh, its another to stick the knife in and twist it. It looks like you were thoroughly enjoying it at the table and took pride in making bwat react that way. Maybe thats the case, maybe not. Since i havent played at the same table im basing this purely on the text ive read and it could be argued you reacted like that due to the abuse BWAT was directed at you.

My main issue is with how you reacted after your privaleges were removed for a few days.

You signed up again with the username 'BackStabbedByTHF' and posted the same message twice :
Thanks 4 Letting BWAT Come Out The Winner In This =)
THF Backstabbed Me -- Thanks Every1 and GG (THF Backstabbed Me -- Thanks Every1 and GG.)

There really wasnt any need to do this. Jones closed the previous thread about it and put up an email for you to contact so that he could explain our view, listen to what you have to say and help us determine what happened (which wasnt clear at the time). I would have hoped that you would have understood that this whole situation had to be discussed and all the leaders were trying to do was resolve the issue for everyone - for you, bwat and for all other members. It isnt easy being the peacemaker in situations like this and i really think you should have emailed the email address put up before claiming to be backstabbed by us.

ProTilt

I saw 2 members bringing up protilt a few times the other week. One comment said something along the lines of 'This wouldnt happen at protilt'. Acehigh also mentioned protilt in his 'backstabbing' thread.

For any protilters who dont know, ive spoke to EF Hutton (the owner of protilt) on a few occasions. Whilst i havent met him in real life, ive seen his actions on his forum and he was nothing but friendly, polite and professional when speaking to me via email and from that my opinion is that hes a stand up guy. He made me more than welcome when i posted over there a few times

However, any protilters should remember one thing - 'This isnt ProTilt'. This is THF. We do things differently - it doesnt mean our way is better than theirs or vice versa. We might handle things differently from other forums (People who are regulars at protilt will always be more than welcome to join in and post here).

We arent up our own asses thinking we know everything and we might not always make a decision that you agree with - we have close to 5000 members now, our decisions will always be disagreed by a few people. We know that.

The one thing i would say about THF. We do our best to listen, we react to member suggestions if we think it will improve the community and in situations like this we try and explain why we make certain decisions.

In life, all the good people have to do to let the bad people win is do nothing (not saying anyone here is bad - lol). We're proactive in trying to keep this place a fun enjoyable place to talk about poker.


How the leaders dealt with the situation

The leaders decided to remove site privaleges for both bwat and acehigh for a few days so that we could see what happened. At the time we didnt know what had happened.

Some may disagree with this. Personally, i think its the best action that could have been taken. We have seen this kind of thing arise in this past - every time the members have come on, posted a thread saying the other person is this and that and more often or not pulled other members into the argument. All it does is create an unsavoury atmosphere with people posting abusive messages to each other in the heat of the moment.

By removing site privaleges it stopped any abusive argumentative threads developing on the forum and gives staff a chance to look at what actually happened. Its not a perfect solution but i think its better than the alternative of having to read fight threads for a week (ive seen forums implode when this has happened and see great members leave). You should also remember that an email was put up for everyone to email and comment on the situation so that we could try and resolve the matter.

I hope everyone understands that it can be difficult for leaders in situations like this. All they are doing is trying to keep the peace and act in the best interests of all members. It is sometimes a thankless task (From looking at the timestamps on the posts jonah was posting about this after 2am trying to make sure everything was ok!!) and it isnt clear what happened which is why it can take a few days to hear all sides of the story.


....

Im not saying anything against bwat or acehigh. This is my opinion on what happened - i see no reason in giving you bs.

We're all human - we all have our bad days and when we do sometimes its best for others to stand back to let that person let off some steam. Though i cant let this kind of thing happen week in week out. We have a close community here and i dont want that to be ruined. I think both of you acted childish.

The league is getting more and more popular and i want to ensure our games at the league and elsewhere remain a fun place. Part of the reason our games are fun is because we dont get crap like this every week.

As it stands, acehigh is not banned. Bwats account has been banned after requesting his account to be closed several times to j0nah at pokerstars. Bwat, if you feel differently please contact me.

I will email a copy of this text to both members so that they know my opinion on the matter.

im sure you've all got sore eyes now from reading this thread - lol
Lets get back to playing poker.

More importantly, Scottishben and the prof have both kicked my ass in the last few weeks and im looking for some revenge

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wow i' lost 4words about this good job Fonz adressing this
i do have a sore eye from reading it ;lol but you did the rite thing
for THF. playaz got 2 remember poker will get the best out of a playaz
just know ur place and regardless the situation( Respect ) thts like goin on tilt.
anyway every1 gotta remember is all about THF and the members
this is the best site on the net and everything we do as members reflects on THF. ( does involve look back an remember THF is all 1. and good luck on working it out)


.........///////////........../////////////////.........../////////////////
in poker anything can happen
at THF winning is our business

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"Only On Pokerstars Gotta Luv It!!!!"

Fonz, thanks should go out to YOU and the Leaders for stopping this before it got out of hand. I personally enjoy our league games, and look forward to them every Sunday, in fact it is the only game i will play that THF sponsors. Having said that, it did occur to me that yesterday might have been my last game in the league. The poker table is no place for what occured yesterday. Bwat's blantant disregard of courtesy to other players was totally unacceptable, and Pino's twisting of the knife wasnt acceptable. Once a player is beat, tell him/her Good Hand, heck, i have been known to even apologize when i get lucky enough to put a bad beat on a player. In Pino's defense, he did tell Bwat GH. This is not the first instance in which someone has gotten bent by Pino's actions. Hell,he has pissed me off a few times, but i am the better poker player , so i let slide. Bwat's words to J0nah were very inappropriate, and no member should never speak to a Leader of this site in that manner.

I have come to LOVE this site and its members, but after yesterday i will have to reevaluate my place in this great online community and make a decision based on my expectations of what this site will and will not allow.

In my opinion, and its just my opinion, BWAT should be banned, Pino should be put on punished, but i would think that a 1 week suspension would be more in order.

I do not know either one of these people, and i give my input only as a member of this community and what is a reasonable expectation of behavior in that community.

any questions you can email me jstobbs@stx.rr.com

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jrs0507

By uniting we stand, By dividing we fall

Maybe a little of topic, but since you brought it up Fonz, I have just one thing to say....."BRING IT"......LOL....
I hope youve got a little more than what youve brought in the last 3 tournaments Ive played with you (which I knocked you out in all 3)......

Just harassing you Fonz.....that way when you kick my ass it will feel even more redeeming......

__________________
"I started with nothing. I still have most of it left."

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"

http://live.xbox.com/member/JediSlayer76

theprofessor@texasholdemforums.com

I have sent my opinions on this matter to J0nah and he can share those with the other leaders or the members at his discretion. I don't think dragging this dead horse through the mud any further serves any purpose.

However, I do want to chime in here and applaud J0nah and Fonz and the entire leadership staff here at THF. When you have any community, you have personal interactions that go poorly from time to time. Many places on the internet run into these problems regularly and I'm sure THF is no exception. What sets this site apart from the vast majority of sites is the expedient and professional response to this type of incident by the staff. They did an initial evaluation and took temporary measures to have time to evaluate the situation thoroughly. They then took a look at the entire situation gathering as much information as was available. They then made a decision based on a thorough evaluation of all the information, taking into account what was best for those involved and the community as a whole.

This is rare not only on internet sites, but in any community. It is much easier for community leaders to make a decision based on the initial feedback from a specific situation. That our leaders here did not do this says volumes about the quality of personnel staffing this site. They may not always make the right decision, they are, after all, only human. But you can be certain that they will give every decision careful consideration. And that's all anyone can ask from the leaders of any organization.

Thank you Fonz, J0nah and crew for providing such a wonderful venue for all of us and working tirelessly to keep it wonderful.

Thank you Grumbar. The members here need to understand that we are here to make this place a fun and friendly place to be. When a situation like this occurs, we need to take initial action to keep it from escalating, but any long term decisions are discussed thoroughly by the staff. We try and make the best decision for THF and its members. It is really good to hear that some members here appreciate what we are trying to do, and the situations we must deal with. I hope that we are able to maintain the friendly and respectfull attitude that many of you have come to expect from THF.

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"I started with nothing. I still have most of it left."

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"

http://live.xbox.com/member/JediSlayer76

theprofessor@texasholdemforums.com

I would like to say thanks to Fonz and the other leaders. While I am just average player I enjoy playing with such greats as Fink, J0nah, Fonz, the professor, xtra, cali, ref, and many others. Too many to name all of them. This site has really grown and growing pains like yesterday happen and I want to applaud you all on the quick response and unbiased way you handle these situations. Thanks to all.

Still can't believe I typed j0nah (mister 8's) name as a great one.

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I OWN THE PERSON THAT BEAT RIVERLOSER!!!


I AM GONNA BE ALL OVER YOU LIKE A RAT ON A CHEETO

EITHER CAN I but thanks anyway

First off, I would like to apologize for the remarks I had made in the THF league game yesterday. I think everything I said was taken WAAAAAY out of context. I really need to make sure every1 here, as well as every1 at ProTilt, that my remarks were only made in humor. I honestly cannot stress this enough right now. You all have played with me for more than a month now, and you know how I like to talk, and now how my antics are. I'm a fierce competitor and I like to win -- and this case I let my emotions get the best of me. I rooted for a teammate, plain and simple, and let a young kid (BWAT) rile me up. In all fairness, I honestly thought he joking around when he first got knocked out -- like when he told me to "fk off" and "fk myself" and "f@g" blah blah blah...that's why I was joking back with him and telling him to calm down -- which you can plainly see in that chat log someone put on a prior thread. However, I soon realized he wasn't joking after he got on AOL Instant Messenger and started berating me even more on there...I won't mention the words said in THAT convo other than they weren't that positive or enthusiastic -- LOL. He spammed me on AIM...and then proceeded to go into ProTilt chat and do the same thing. I honestly felt bad for THF, because you all represent yourselves with such high class and integrity, and someone like BWAT did not do a great job at that.

In hindsight, I regret stooping to BWAT's level and saying the things I did. I disgraced myself, I disgraced ProTilt, and I disgraced THF by acting the way I did. I just hope every1 here who was offended by my actions would be willing accept a formal apology from myself. I have nothing more to add other than I hope you forgive me for the events that transpired due to me defending myself -- it could've been done in a more professional manner, and I hope everyone feels I'm telling the truth.

The only thing I suggest in the future is to just hear someone out before you ban them. Everyone was so quick to post their two cents on that first thread in the THF League section. A lot of people don't know me, and therefore they didn't understand the nature of my comments. I think it's only natural to react adversely to things they know nothing about, or only somewhat hear of. But I just hope you know I'm not a horribly guy. For me to write this and honestly bear my heart out to every1 here about the events that happened is very difficult for me, because I'm a very prideful person (male thing, I guess) -- but I also know when to be a man and step up and admit to my mistakes. And this is what it was -- a simple mistake that many people could've been victim to. I just hope you all soak this in...and hopefully it really gives you more insight into the REAL Pino -- not the supposed loud-mouth, Matusow-reborn character you've come accustomed to seeing in our League events. I'll try my best to tone it down in the future for everyone. GG to you all =)