|
Welcome to the Poker Forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
Click here to register.
Members get :
- Access to all discussion rooms
- A Chance to participate in our private member only freerolls.
- A chance to improve their poker skills and pass on their knowledge to others.
 |
Pokerstars RNG Poker Stars   | | 
08-06-2007, 10:04 PM
| | | |
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingDog  Today??? I've been programing since 1966 and we always simulated a pack that way, even in those days. It's always been the simple and obvious way. | I'm referring to a simulation as in an object. Object-oriented programming is a concept of 'today' even though its been around for awhile.
As far as programming in yesterday I have no insight on that in 1966 i wasn't even born  if you did it the same way then fair enough maybe its always been the case.
__________________
Wanted: DEAD OR ALIVE - KK - Quickest SIX in THF | | |
08-06-2007, 10:14 PM
| | | | 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingDog There are some fallacies here.
First, "a system" is not necessarily monolithic, so breaking into a system may well only give you access to one part of a system, such as the game server rather than the accounts server. It is also not necessarily true that there is any path from a server you have hacked to another server responsible for the accounts so that you can chain through from one to another.
Second, fraud is not necessarally external. A corrupt programmer could give himself access to the live game simply by adding extra software to the software he is already responsible for producing or maintaining. Again, if he is not employed to work on the accounts software, then the game software may be all he has access to.
So the argument, "why waste your time doing it when you could do more" just doesn't hold up, because doing more may be very much harder or impractical. | Correct me if i'm wrong but arent players profiles transfered to the games servers while playing? The game server would constantly be writing to the file, to have to send all that data across the net to another server would seem like it would use too much resources.
If they arent transfered then your argument makes a lot of sense. Breaking into a games server would not mean they can change the cash in their profile. In that case and knowing the cards would be their best option to get cash.
As far as having an internal risk, I think they have third party companies inspect and certify the code, i would find that very difficult to pull off.
__________________
Wanted: DEAD OR ALIVE - KK - Quickest SIX in THF | | |
08-06-2007, 10:22 PM
| | | |
OK, gotcha. The representational details have actually changed several times, but the basic underlying concept of "simulating a deck which is then shuffled" and the algorithms for doing that haven't. | | |
08-06-2007, 11:39 PM
| | | |
Well, if it was me doing the job, I would use the following , the current account balance is requested for display by the game server but is not modified or modifiable in the server. The results of game actions, buy-in, cash-out, I would handle by sending the info that describes the action back from the game server, another server can then translate that into a money amount to be added to your account. I would also want to crosscheck each action against the rest of the game state, for example total number of chips on the table and total with each player is consistent with your cash-out. Tournaments are easy, your position has a predetermined prize, so only your position need be transmitted. All transfers would of course be an encrypted transfer of information.
So basically, I wouldn't allow the game server to directly modify the account balance, just passively display the numbers. That is not unbreakable, but you are looking at the need for insider knowledge.
The weakness of auditing is that it is usually done at source code level. But the program that actually runs is a set of binary numbers. You need to prove the binary image which is running is always the same as the one which would be generated by text inspected by the auditors, as opposed to a corrupt text withheld from the auditors. Tricky that. The auditor could go as far as generating an image and comparing it to the one "which is currently running", which isn't easy because part of the running image is constantly changing data. But even if that were done, what of the rest of the time when an audit is not being performed? | | |
08-06-2007, 11:51 PM
| | | |
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingDog There are some fallacies here.
Second, fraud is not necessarily external. A corrupt programmer could give himself access to the live game simply by adding extra software to the software he is already responsible for producing or maintaining. Again, if he is not employed to work on the accounts software, then the game software may be all he has access to.
impractical. |
That's a good point. I'm obviously not a programmer but I know that Microsoft programmers have been known to put ghost programs into their software. Granted most of these are playful but why not a poker site programmer. Once they change jobs then there you go.
At least I can take comfort in knowing that if somebody is doing something like this they're surely not playing at .25/.50 with me. 
__________________ LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP BEER!  | | |
08-07-2007, 01:34 AM
| | | |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinero2005 That's a good point. I'm obviously not a programmer but I know that Microsoft programmers have been known to put ghost programs into their software. Granted most of these are playful but why not a poker site programmer. Once they change jobs then there you go.
At least I can take comfort in knowing that if somebody is doing something like this they're surely not playing at .25/.50 with me. | Microsoft...o man...I'm not even gonna get started on them, they intentionally make their code buggy so you're forced to pay for their support...
As for the comment about playing at 25/50c..If I had a program such as that, that is exactly the level I'd do this on (okay, maybe I'd go up to .50/1 or MAYBE 1/2). Think about it...lots of bets lost on at the higher limits, someone WILL take notice, as you could be talking about thousands of dollars, very quickly. But, let's just say I take 2 big blinds from every player at the table, and do this at every single table for that level. Doing a quick check right now..there are 16 active NL .25/.50 full tables right now at Pokerstars. That doesn't take into account FL, shorthanded, and other games. But, let's just look at these 16. 16 tables * 9 players / table * 2 big blinds / player * .50 / big blind, and you have $144, that will most likely go undetected, as most players won't notice a difference as small as $1 in their account. Do this a couple times per day, and you have a couple thousand per week, that's more than the average American makes working 8 hours/day.
__________________
1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League
Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame. | | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | |
This room is for Poker Stars related discussions.
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:46 PM. |
Latest THF threads :
     | |  |
