OUCH

Was flat calling the wrong play here? was my hand too vulnerable?

PokerStars Game #3322401015: Tournament #16453286, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/12/13 - 12:27:14 (ET)
Table '16453286 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bigalgolf (1405 in chips)
Seat 2: CRINGE11 (11425 in chips)
Seat 4: SgtRocky1 (11210 in chips)
Seat 6: saleensc (11165 in chips)
Seat 8: ScotiaTheOne (20230 in chips)
Seat 9: HY Division (12065 in chips)
bigalgolf: posts the ante 25
CRINGE11: posts the ante 25
SgtRocky1: posts the ante 25
saleensc: posts the ante 25
ScotiaTheOne: posts the ante 25
HY Division: posts the ante 25
CRINGE11: posts small blind 200
SgtRocky1: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScotiaTheOne [ ]
saleensc: folds
ScotiaTheOne: calls 400
HY Division: folds
bigalgolf: folds
CRINGE11: raises 800 to 1200
SgtRocky1: calls 800
ScotiaTheOne: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [ ]
CRINGE11: bets 1200
SgtRocky1: folds
ScotiaTheOne: calls 1200
*** TURN *** [ ] []
CRINGE11: bets 2000
ScotiaTheOne: calls 2000
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
CRINGE11: bets 7000 and is all-in
ScotiaTheOne: calls 7000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CRINGE11: shows [ ] (a full house, Queens full of Sevens)
ScotiaTheOne: shows [ ] (a full house, Sevens full of Fours)
ScotiaTheOne said, "omg"
ScotiaTheOne said, "lol"
CRINGE11 collected 24150 from pot
ScotiaTheOne said, "nice catch"
CRINGE11 said, "hahaha"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 24150 | Rake 0
Board [7s 4s 7d 4c Qh]
Seat 1: bigalgolf (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: CRINGE11 (small blind) showed [ ] and won (24150) with a full house, Queens full of Sevens
Seat 4: SgtRocky1 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: saleensc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ScotiaTheOne showed [ ] and lost with a full house, Sevens full of Fours
Seat 9: HY Division folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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No way of seeing that coming. The 2 spades on the flop would of concerned me a bit and after the turn i would of pushed it. He most likely would of called anyway putting you on the draw. Just a tough beat is all. He caught his 2 outer on you. But then again you were gambling by getting into the pot in the first place with J-7o. If that was me with the Queens and you called the pre-flop raise on me and I lost I would of given you an earfull...LOL.

Edit*** Didnt realize you were suited and were partially committed when you bought into the pot from early position. Still, his raise was sufficient enough to lay it down. But you had a nice chip lead and could afford to gamble.

i changed your post so that the card images show

first off, i personally wouldnt have called in early position with that hand. You were chip leader however...perhaps you were having a little success bullying them out of the pot. However, i do think you calling the raise is an even bigger mistake. J7, regardless of them being suited, is not a good hand. If i had called the blind i would have just folded after that raise. Over time you'll lose much more times than youll win with this type of play.

i think calling at the flop wasnt too bad...though i would have been concerned about the flush draw. After the board paired up again giving you a full house i would have reraised him all in. If he only had a 4 at this time you would have been beating him and if he had the other 7 then you would just be splitting the pot.

at the end you were just unlucky he caught his queen.

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Personally I'd have folded preflop. But you played so I'd have raised his flop bet rather than call it to see where I was in the hand. I wouldn't think he was trying to steal preflop as his raise says to me he wants action, only 3 x BB despite a caller and an active player behind him, so he's unlikely to have a 7, if he has 77 you're doomed anyway! I think he'd have called your raise, then I'd have put him all-in on the turn rather than calling. He then has to say "I have 2 outs do I want to risk hitting them, if I lose I have 7k in chips and are in pretty bad shape"

IMO, not enough aggression was shown by you once you decided to enter to pot.

There a more experienced players on here than me, please feel free to pull my theory apart!

Ouch indeed. Can't say I would have called with that hand. J7 is a garbage hand but you gou extremely lucky on the flop and you got unlucky on the river. Limping with J7s what the hell?

Yea, i agree with Fonz there is no reason to play a J7 when the blinds are 200/400 especially from early position and especially facing a raise. There is nothing you can do about the hand because it was just two big hands against each other. This, however, shows how one small mistake of limping from early position can lead to even bigger mistakes later in the hand.

why were you even in the pot but you were but why oh why let that river drop you were way to passive from my experiance on riverstars you had to bet him out

phil hellmuth writes about a very similar hand in his latest article...

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...76175c8b3c6def

i think phil is the greatest, but when i read this article i could just imagine what he would have said to an opponent of his who decided to play 45s if he raised the pot. phil would have given his opponent such an ear full for even considering playing such a hand against him LOL......

Thx for above responses. General concensus seems to be that i shouldn't have played J-7s. I would not normally have played it, but here are my reasons for doing so:

1. If i caught a hand (which I did) i could take out any player.
2. I was on a big card rush
3. I had enough chips to call and see a flop

I did not want to bet him out of the pot, i wanted to take all his chips! I realise he could have had the other 7 with a higher kicker, but I thought the flat call on the flop was good. I think i should have raised all-in on the turn, though.

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