WiredDragon's Bankroll Management Challenge

Hi all, welcome to this thread on my personal Bankroll Management Challenge. I am an amateur poker player that has been playing for 1.5 years and has just recently put real money down online on PKR. Over a month I found my Bankroll fluctuating, not really making much money, not really loosing any, I haven’t needed to deposit a second time I realised that I must be doing something wrong. Which after doing some research I found this to be true and simply came down to Bad Bankroll Management. I was buying into Tournaments my bankroll couldn’t afford, I was playing at times when I shouldn’t like when I was tired or going on tilt. Basically I have discovered that for people who are serious poker players online trying to make money there is a way, and it comes down to looking at Chris Ferguson’s Bankroll Management Challenge where he turned $1 into $20 000. I am going to do a similar thing but I’m going to set goals along the way. My first goal is to make $200, I will be doing this on 2 different poker programs PokerStars and Titan Poker. You can check this thread for updates on how I’m going and can ask me questions about my challenge. I am also keeping a blog at

WiredDragon's Xanga Site

I have not set a time limit, I could be doing this for years to come, I’m sure I will learn a lot in the process and others can learn from my success and failures along the way as well. I’m going to do my best to stick to the set rules I have set out and never shoot more than my Bankroll can offord.

I have decided on how I am going to manage my bankroll. Although it will be some time untill I actually have the money to do so, I will need at least $40 - $100 for the 0.02/0.04 Ring Tables before I can start applying bankroll management. When I buy in to a NoLimit or Pot Limit Ring Table I am going to buy in for 50x the size of the Big Blind (which is usually half the size of the Max Buy In). I have seen my brother do this and I think its a good idea it will prevent big losses when I end up going all in against someone in a hand. The following are my bankroll managment rules I have set out:
1. Buy in to a 9 or 10 seater NoLimit or Pot Limit Ring Tables with at least 20x the buy in amount. With the exception of the lowest NoLimit Ring Tables where the limit is 0.01/0.02, I can play when ever I'm ready to.
2. Buy in to 6 seater NoLimit or Pot Limit Ring Tables with at least 25x the buy in amount.
3. Buy in to a Limit Ring Table with at least 300x the Big Blind amount. With the exception of the lowest limit tables, I can play when ever I'm ready to.
4. Buy in to Tournaments with at least 40x the buy in amount. With the exception for the lowest buy in for Single Table Tournaments and Multi Table Tournaments, I can play when ever I'm ready to but I am only going to play them as a reward for good Ring Table positive influence on my bankroll.
I also have what I call Cold Deck & Bad Beat Protection Methods in place which are as follows:
1. At any time if I think that being cold decked is effecting my game walk away. This will give me a chance to think about those hands I was folding that would have won and realise if it was a good fold or not, I may learn something from doing this.
2. At any time if I end up all in with another player and lose walk away. This will give me a chance to think about the hand if it was really a bad beat, I was out played or if I did something wrong and can learn from my mistakes and it can avoid me losing money because I'm on tilt.
3. Never play poker online when I'm tired, hungry or feeling run down.
4. If I'm not enjoying taking on this challenge then quit.
The reason for buying in to 6 seater tables for 25x the buy in amount instead of 20x is to allow for varience, I'm going to play more hands and the big blind is going to hit me quicker than on a 9 or 10 seater table. I'm sure this bankroll managment technique will be enough to handle the future cold decks and loses I will suffer in the future and I will not loose all my money in one hit. I realise that by following such bankroll management rules its going to require a good level of patients and dicipline to pull this challenge off. Instead of say aiming for $20 000 I think I will break down my goals and start with aiming for $200. If I reach that goal then I will reconsider if I want to go further and set the next goal if I want to continue.

I hope you enjoy the thread and if you have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask.

WiredDragon

Good read and good advise. Never play above your roll. Another thing I have found to help my stack is Money Added games. Play as many as you can...why not have a chance for extra cash. Poker.com had Secret Santa SNG's running now with double the prize pool....and if you look hard, you can tell when they pop up....easy money.

I just wanted to report that I'm doing well on Titan playing 10c+2c Sit&Goes and 0.01/0.02 Pot Limit Omaha High Low Ring Table on Pokerstars. I have been buying in for $1 on these PLOHL Tables, I was felted a few times, then I stopped to think about what was happening and it came down to putting all my money in on a draw. So I put down another $1 and stopped putting my money in on a draw and I ended up making $3. I figured with Omaha HL you could put your money in on a draw and have much better chance to hit because theres so many more outs (I had 25 outs to hit in one situation but it didn't come) The thing is your never too sure what the other players have which makes either some or maybe most of your outs dead. So what did I learn .... Its a gamble to put all your money in on a draw. So I won't be doing that again.

It was not to long ago when I put real money down on PKR, in doing so I am going for the bonus to get the extra $50 if I reach 7500 PKR Points within 3 months of the time I made my first deposit. So lately I have not been playing Pokerstars or Titan Poker, I have realised I really need to put the time in on PKR if I am going to get the $50 bonus. So with that said, I have put Pokerstars and Titan Poker on the side and I am just playing PKR, frequently. Lately I have learnt a few things.

First I was originally playing Tournaments MTT & STT as well as NoLimit Texas Holdem + Pot Limit Omaha Ring Tables on PKR. Both ring table stakes were 0.02/0.04

My bankroll was floating going up and down, so I have decided to stop playing tournaments and just play ring tables. I also decided to step up a level on the Texas Holdem Ring Tables to 0.05/0.10 stakes. And I found that I have more fold equity on these higher tables. I somehow get a better game on the 0.05/0.10 Tables in PKR and now have $120 in my PKR bankroll. I make way more money on these tables than the 0.02/0.04 tables.

Something else I have been doing right at the beginning of a Tournament before the game starts is I will ask everyone on the table, "Who is your favourite Professional Poker Player?" This exposes the Sharks on the table, can give you an idea of the kind of player your up against before the first person to act in the tournament even gets to make a move.

Playing PLO, there is a lot of money to be made in the game, most people don't know when to fold at the flop, most people don't fold preflop which is crazy. You need to flop something pretty good in PLO to continue, other wise you should fold at the flop. I see so many people calling a POT size bet with just a Pair in Omaha. People playing Omaha you need to realise that out of the 4 cards you are playing only 2 of them can be used to make the best hand you can. This means that there are 6 possible hands you can be playing. If there are 10 people on the table then there is 60 possible hands people can be playing all together on the table. What does this mean? This means to win in Omaha you need to play for the Nuts, Second Nuts or 3rd Nuts. When I've been playing Omaha I have found that the player on the table is either a Shark or a Big Fish. Rairly ever are there average players, Lots of Big Fish in Omaha which means Lots of Dead Money.

You figure out who the sharks are prior to a micro limit MTT by asking who their favorite poker player is? That's rather silly... your omaha comments are sound though

Just to clear up when I actually ask this question on the table its something I only do on $5 Deep & Steep MTT Tournaments. Its been effective at times, not all the time, better trying than doing nothing when I could get some information.

If anyone wants to try out the same thing they can try asking something else, obviously I don't work out who the sharks are 100% before the game starts doing this but it still gives me a headstart on reading the table. I got this idea from Joe Hashem and Gavin Smith who do a similar thing before the game starts at WSOP.

Hope things work out for you WD, it's a sound system and should keep you in good stead. Bankroll management really helps you through downswing variance when you get those periods where whatever you do you can't catch cards, and you are second best in in your good hands.

A couple of days ago I lost $20 at the 5c-10c tables within a couple of hours. For the last few weeks I been running very well, so it wasn't much of a dent. Even so I should have got out as I realised it was going to be one of those days. It's easy to get suborn in these situations and your rule of getting away from the table during these times is great advice. I certainly should have given up after a single buy in loss.

__________________
3rd Pitbull league June 2007
2nd Pitbull league July 2007

Yes Mingo I totally agree. But don't let your loss take you down, look at it as a learning curve, sometimes it takes doing something wrong to realise what to do right. As long as you have learnt from your mistakes, you can consider what has happened as a positive step.

Something recently has happened also that I have learnt from which is related to what you were saying. I spent 2 hours on PKR 0.05/0.10 cent stakes and got lucky. I had KK at UTG+3, UTG minraised with 55(donkey), UTG+2 called the minraise with J8 suited(new player just sat down), I reraised the minraise to 70 cents. Everyone folded around to Donkey called, New Player Called. Flop comes 10 9 7. They both check the flop, I push all in, they both call. I have pair of Kings, Donkey has Pair of 5s, New Player flopped a straight. Turn comes 7, River comes K. I backdoored Kings full of 7's. I felted both of them and they both left the table.

My stack on the Ring Table is now $20. I usually buy in for $5 and leave around $10. I have a rule that I must leave when I make 10% of my bankroll which means I always buy in for about 5% and if I double up I should leave. So with $20 now I should definately leave but I wanted to just see the next 2 cards untill UTG and then leave after that.

This was a bad idea, and this is the lesson to be learnt.

UTG+2 was crap so I folded preflop. UTG I got QQ, now just as I get to UTG the new player before (that I felted) sat back down next to me, same position, now sitting on the BB with another $5 stack. I have QQ, so I make standard raise 3x to 30cents. Everyone folds around to BB and she now Reraises me to $1.50 total. I sit there and think for a while, I figure, she must be on tilt from me felting her, so I will just call this weird raise and see a flop. If an Ace or a King comes out, I'l definately run away scared.

Flop comes 10 8 4, similar to the previous flop we played, she checks, I figure I like it, I'l just push allin ...(should have made a feeler bet), she calls. This time she has KK, I have QQ. I just lost what I just made from her.

Later on I read the next chapter of Daniel Negreanu's Book I'm up too which is the 5 times rule, and I realise that she was a shark all along and that reraise to $1.50 was not a weird preflop reraise it was standard thing to do. I should have picked up on it. Thing was I never had a chance to see what she was like before we played together which comes down to the same thing I need to remember, write it on my monitor or something, "Always assume they are good players until they prove otherwise."

I'm actually doing pretty well with PKR, like I said before I'm just playing PKR right now because I'm going for the $50 bonus. I have a month and a half to go and I'm half way there with PKR points. My bankroll on PKR is now $130. My goal is to reach $200 and then see if I want to continue from there to my next goal. I am going to stick with 0.05/0.10 Texas Holdem Tables right now for a while, they are doing me well. Once my Bankroll has grown a bit more, I'm going to step up to 0.10/0.25 Tables and buy in for $12.50. I believe that if I do well on these next tables up I can actually make enough money to possibly make $15 - $25 per hour. When my bankroll is ready I will do it. This should be interesting, if this happens I could possibly at this point make a decent amount of money online that could pay for my everyday expenses.

My Titan and Pokerstars Bankrolls are still live. I actually can't wait to get back onto Pokerstars, I want to see how making money playing PLOHL and Lowball goes. I'm not too bad at Stud HL as well, those are the ring tables I want to sus out on Pokerstars, too bad PKR doesn't have these games.