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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Playing Online

Raising from the blinds in limit poker

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Old 11-22-2005, 03:28 AM
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Default Raising from the blinds in limit poker

I see this play all of the time. 6 limpers and someone raises from the blinds. Of course everone is going to call the raise. So what hands do you think are appropriate to raise with from the blinds with that many callers and you know they aren't going to fold?
There are 3 reasons to raise. 1. to get more money in the pot 2. to eliminate opponents. 3. to take control of the hand. You could argue there are other reasons but basically those are the 3 main reasons to raise from the blinds.
I'd argue I'd only raise with AA or KK. No one is going to fold. With those 2 hands I want more money in the pot. Yes there are a lot of other hands where I might think that I have the best hand but mathimatically against that many opponents you aren't a favorite to win the hand collectively.
What do you all think?
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

I think that if you are going to play a hand like 910 suited then you will probably want to raise. If you do raise noone will put you on a drawing hand and the amount that you could win will be huge. If you dont hit then you can simply fold. But if you dont raise then people will be much more aware or the straight or flush possibility and you probably wont get paid off as much.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Why add extra money from your stack when if you hit your hand you'll get paid anyway?
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Well, first of all you may want to eliminate some of the other players in the hand to give you a better chance of winning if you just hit top pair. Also if you raise it makes it seem less likely that you would have a hand like 910 which would make it easier for you to get paid off.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Truushot, a raise from the blinds can be VERY important, and you're analysis of why people raise is way too simplified. While no one may fold their hands if they have limped into the pot, they have now become very aware of the possibility of being raised if they limp in in the future. You will have far more people limp in if they think they have a good chance of seeing the flop by only paying the BB than if they fear having to pay 2 or more bets.

This is most obvious when the game has grown tight due to increasing blinds and there are fewer people at the table. If you often raise players who have only called the blinds, people will fold mediocre hands and the small blind to you often enough to make such a bet justified.

This is the sample principle as check-raising, it is easy to bully those who never check-raise, but do it just once and everyone will be much more cautious of your checks, resulting in free cards.

What the other posters have said about having a drawing hand is also correct. If you bet or raise with a drawing hand, a hit hand will pay MUCH more than if you've only called and reraise on the river when you actually hit your hand.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Just to add, if you raise from the SB or BB and everyone calls you have doubled the pot and almost everyone will have put you on a hand.
If you catch anything on the flop, make a bet and at least half of them will fold.
The problem with this is you have increase the pot to a point were the pot odds are good for someone drawing as the pot is now 20x the BB or 10x the next bet.

In a 2/4 game you have put in $6 (2bb 2raise and 2 bet after the flop) and the pot is upto (give 6 other player + 2 blinds) $36 preflop and $48 (if you had 3 callers to the turn)

Next round is $4 or 1/12 of the pot. Reasonable to call on alot of different draws.

You will get rivered or out played some of the time, but you have put in $6 to $10 to win $40-$60.

So raise from the BB in limit with lots of limpers. Almost ever time.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Right, and to clarify what CRM said, the fact that you're giving drawing hands the right pot odds after the flop, and therefore increasing the chance they'll stay doesn't mean you're somehow helping drawing hands.

It's extremely important to still raise preflop, because by having them pay double to see the flop, you're making their chance at hitting their draw (6%+ of two suited cards hitting a flush for example) much less profitable.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

I think we went off topic a bit. I said what hands would you raise from the blinds with?
I agree that you should raise with AA, KK maybe even QQ or JJ. Why are you raising though? you are raising to get more money into the pot? Yes you can run the continuation bet and some will fold but if 3 or more people get a piece of the flop and it didn't hit you over the head you are still a dog collectively.
I was generally thinking of lower limit then 2/4. For the most part 2/4 and up is played a bit tighter usually then say a .25/.50 game.
Some seem to think that raising with 89s or something like that is a good play. Do you do that all the time? Can I get in your game? Do you think that other then for variance play that it is +EV?
I think some people get mixed up thinking that a early position deceptive raise is the same as raising from the blinds.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Raising from the blinds in limit poker

Raising to get money in the pot is definately worth it with a hand such as AA, KK, AK. It doesn't matter if you have less than 50% chance of winning if the flop doesn't improve you, and just because you don't expect to win the hand doesn't mean a raise is wrong. You're starting hand is superior, favored to win in the long run, and you want as much money in the pot as possible when you do get these hands.

I didn't go off-topic, I was simply answering your question of why people raise from the blind with a reason I don't think you noticed. Raising from the blinds ensures that people never feel they have a good shot of getting in cheaply. And while people do play very loose in .10/.25 or .25/.50 games, they aren't blind and will fold mediocre hands more often if they expect to be raised even if they're in late position.

I would raise in the BB with any hand I would have normally entered the pot with if there have been a lot of limpers, including hands I wouldn't expect to win with such as QJ.
  
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