Raise, Reraise...what happens?

i made the final table again this week. 5th out of 49.
About 12.30pm a few people starting seeing if anyone else wanted to play another game so someone suggested his flat.

At this point, another guy whose a regular said he got screwed there last time due to a technicality. A discussion about it arose.

Heres what happened. Im not 100% sure who is in the right so id love to know if anyone knows for sure


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ok, they were playing in a home game last week.

Player A has the nuts. He declares raise. Before he gets a chance to say how much hes putting in player B declares Reraise.

Player A Says that : the minimum raise player B can put in is twice the raise of what he was gonna put in (unless of course player B is all in). Player A said his raise was thus all in (i believe this was the decision that stood)

Player B Says that : all he needs to call is the minimum bet....eg 1xBigBlind. He said that hes seen it on the tv before and all the guy was committed to was the minimum bet


i belive that Player A is in the right though im not 100% sure and id love to get it clarified. Im a member of the cincinattis poker club in Glasgow. Obviously with dealers etc its casino rules so you cant really let things slide - everything is by the book (different from a home game with your friends). For example, one night i saw a guy put in a raise. One other player was calling but by this point the dealer had incorrectly reached over the line and mucked the original raisers cards. Finally, the mangement decided that it whilst it was a dealer error, the guy who called won the hand.

Its not the exact same but i think the raise/reraise scenario is pretty similar which is why i think the raise all in could stand

does anyone know for sure? Has anyone seen something like this before. Im pretty clued on the correct casino rules of calling, stringbetting etc but havent came across this before so id love to hear the answer to this

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On T.V. it was heads up between some old guy named charlie (amature) and I believe it was johnny chan. Johnny annouced a raise, and immediately after, Charlie annouced "All-In", before the raise amount was said. Heres how I believe the rule was stipulated.


The player who annouced the initial raise, is only required to put in the minimum legal raise (but more if he wishes). The reacting player did not make a legal move therefore his bet is invalidated. Player A must stipulate how much of a raise, and then player B can decide what to do.


In the T.V. incident, Chan put in the minimum raise, and charlie annouced all in for the second time (since the first all in was invalid), and chan folded.

yes, i know of that rule. Ive seen that before at the casino...infact, ive saw it several times when i think about it. In my example its kind of the reverse of that - which is why i thought that the original raiser could say he was gonna go all in

in your example, the 2nd guy is all in regardless. He messed up so the original raiser (chan) has the advantage of either raising the allin amount or backing out and only losing the minimum bet

in my example, the 2nd guy again messed up. However, should he be made to put in all of his chips because of it? ie. does the decision of player B calling all of player A's chips rest with player A and player A alone

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In some casions (not all) you can call out of turn. Player 1 bets, player 3 says "call" before player 2 acts then as long as player 2 doesnt raise then player 3 is obligated to call (can not fold or raise). I seriously doubt any casino "allows" a raise out of turn. While it may change the action in front of him I would assume the player in question would be warned about it and "diciplined" if it happened again.

The 2nd guy made an illegal bet (raising out of turn) therefore he is not all in. His all in bet is thrown out.

This means chan has the option of betting the minimum, or more if he wishes. The 2nd guy is not obligated to do anything since his bet was illegal. However he could be diciplined for trying to get some kind of advantage with a cheap move like that.

The right thing seems to be exactly what you guys say. The original raiser can announce an amount of his choice since he had not yet declared the amount. Their would be no way to dispute his intended amount at this point. Payer B just shit in his nest and must pay the price. As far as the offical ruling there is none since there are no universally accepted poker rules. I know the Tournament directors association are trying to put one together but I think the casinos want to keep the rules somewhat vague so they may interpurt them on a case by case basis.

By the way, that hand was not Chan, it was Noli (Fresco?)

In that case, he asked what the minimum was, and it was ruled that the chips he had already counted out (he had not announced an amount yet) were to be placed in the pot and considered his bet.

Charlie, then did it again, but with a different result. This time, Noli wanted the action and did go all in, Charlie was held to the all in.

(and I think this was WPT season 2, maybe three)

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I can recall the words, "you only have to call the minimum" very clearly from charlie, was he overturned by the tournament director?

The second time he said something to the effect of "whatever, he just bets the minimum, and I'm all in"

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