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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Hand Histories

a rookie error

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Old 10-23-2005, 03:12 AM
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Scottishben is offline
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Default a rookie error

This is the kind of rubbish play that i see done time and time again but rarely is it myself that is the stupid one. I am only posting it because many people do the same when clearly it is a poor play.

PokerStars Game #2868813515: Tournament #13822825, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/10/22 - 21:36:58 (ET)
Table '13822825 87' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Scottishben (13918 in chips)
Seat 2: Abs88 (4308 in chips)
Seat 3: LANESTALEY (6880 in chips)
Seat 4: pops26 (5217 in chips)
Seat 5: pokerface13 (16940 in chips)
Seat 7: bigboyblues (6635 in chips)
Seat 8: cheesebob446 (7051 in chips)
Seat 9: S Hawking (20082 in chips)
Scottishben: posts the ante 25
Abs88: posts the ante 25
LANESTALEY: posts the ante 25
pops26: posts the ante 25
pokerface13: posts the ante 25
bigboyblues: posts the ante 25
cheesebob446: posts the ante 25
S Hawking: posts the ante 25
cheesebob446: posts small blind 200
S Hawking: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scottishben [7h 7c]
Scottishben: raises 800 to 1200
Abs88: folds
LANESTALEY: folds
pops26: folds
pokerface13: folds
bigboyblues: calls 1200
cheesebob446: folds
S Hawking: folds
*** FLOP *** [6h 6s 3d]
Scottishben: bets 2400
bigboyblues: raises 3010 to 5410 and is all-in
Scottishben: calls 3010
Scottishben said, "lol silly ben"
*** TURN *** [6h 6s 3d] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [6h 6s 3d Kc] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Scottishben: shows [7h 7c] (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)
bigboyblues: shows [Js Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
bigboyblues collected 14020 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14020 | Rake 0
Board [6h 6s 3d Kc 9s]
Seat 1: Scottishben showed [7h 7c] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Sixes
Seat 2: Abs88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: LANESTALEY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pops26 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pokerface13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bigboyblues (button) showed [Js Jc] and won (14020) with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 8: cheesebob446 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: S Hawking (big blind) folded before Flop


OK i am generally of the view that except at a real tight table folding PP's below 10 at least is probably the best thing to do in VERY early posiiton at this stage in a tourney - it is too hard to know where you stand with this kind of hand post flop. Some people flat call or do a small raise but what do you do if someone bets big here? - if you are risk adverse then there is a real strong case for folding preflop. I dont think people will fold to my bets either if i they just call and let me see the flop. Also if they call you have poor position and with a couple of callers you will either have the worst of it or need to fold to a bluff - trips etc are too unlikely to make this a good hand to flat call with in my view. Given that there were one or two slightly loose but otherwise solid players who might call with k10 etc folding preflop is the thing to do i think.

But that is not the stupid part.

He is likely to have EITHER something like ak, aq aj etc OR pockets i think when i see the flop. I have been playing quite tight in terms of what flops i see and this is the first hand i have played at the table from under the gun. After he reraise I MUST reevaluate and put him on PP. If you are not up against a reckless player as soon as he reraises on the flop you have got to think he has a pp. I doubt many would have called with 6x in this position , maybe a6s but realistically pp's are his most likely holding. The pot is small enough here that i can fold it. This will induce aggressive play from the other players and this might be the sort of thing i want.

Realistically PP is by far the most likely holding and 88 or better seems far more likely than 22, 44 etc. YES he could have ak or something but this would be far braver than fits my read of him. I called far to quickly not giving it enough thought because EVEN if he has Ak etc he could still catch and i think the odds are 60%+ that he has higher PP so this is the kind of play where any good player without strong reads of the opponent (except that he seems fairly solid and seems to be quite tight) would fold without too much thought. it is the kind of decision that i see all the time and it is just a very poor play. At 5$ games or in freerolls or in 10$ games early on you can probably think you are ahead here with an over pair but this was a 10$ MTT with 1600 in at and 250 left - noone was a fool and it is a very poor play here.

60% of the time i will be a big dog, 40% of the time i might be a good favorite but not big enough to make it the kind of hand that i should play.

There is a strong case for checking on the flop here but i think that just induces a bluff here and if he checks instead then he could easily catch higher than 7 to give him a higher 2 pair if he has something like ax etc. My bet was a little dubious but I HAVE to fold his reraise. Calling is just poor play. Whenever you are against an opponent you have to interpret their bids taking account their preflop action (and the kind of player they are) and reinterpret in light of post flop action. even KK could be legitimately folded in this situation IF you had a strong enough read to tell you that your opponent had aa or better (genereally though I would say calling with JJ+ would be correct)

Anyway went on to lose a coin toss to this guy ak (me) all in (pot too rich after limpers not to try to take it down and his raise too high to call and hope an a or a k appears (probably). he had 1010 and should probably have folded my reraise but such is life. I don't like going out on something as likely as a 50/50 but such is life - tourney over when i should have at least finished in the money if I hadn't made this silly play above.
  
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Old 10-23-2005, 04:27 AM
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Nice analysis. You hit the nail on the head.
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