Please critisize me I need the help

PokerStars Game #2094781739: Tournament #10015951, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/07/13 - 14:47:38 (ET)
Table '10015951 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: Mzungu (1715 in chips)
Seat 3: bigmike818 (1725 in chips)
Seat 4: jonnyW (1290 in chips)
Seat 5: BSQUAD2001 (2195 in chips)
Seat 6: canuckster34 (3700 in chips)
Seat 7: coco8uk (890 in chips)
Seat 8: JoeyC5317 (1985 in chips)
jonnyW: posts small blind 50
BSQUAD2001: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BSQUAD2001 [Ac Jc]
canuckster34: calls 100
coco8uk: folds
JoeyC5317: folds
Mzungu: folds
bigmike818: calls 100
jonnyW: calls 50
BSQUAD2001: raises 500 to 600
canuckster34: folds
bigmike818: calls 500
jonnyW: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c 8s 4c]
BSQUAD2001: bets 600
bigmike818: raises 525 to 1125 and is all-in
BSQUAD2001: calls 525
canuckster34 said, "folded ace 5 again"
*** TURN *** [9c 8s 4c] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [9c 8s 4c 2s] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BSQUAD2001: shows [Ac Jc] (high card Ace)
bigmike818: shows [9d Kd] (a pair of Nines)
bigmike818 collected 3650 from pot
canuckster34 said, "fierd"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3650 | Rake 0
Board [9c 8s 4c 2s Th]
Seat 2: Mzungu folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: bigmike818 (button) showed [9d Kd] and won (3650) with a pair of Nines
Seat 4: jonnyW (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: BSQUAD2001 (big blind) showed [Ac Jc] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 6: canuckster34 folded before Flop
Seat 7: coco8uk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JoeyC5317 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

your first raise was crazy
your raise after the flop was crazy
your calling the all in was crazy

very silly play in my opinion - although AJ is a good hand, that raise was silly. The other player was actually worse for calling it

betting on drawing hands like this will lose you a lot more cash than it will win you

that guy was an idiot as well though - let me play next at his table any day of the week

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Fonz is right. You should not have raised that big (if at all) preflop. You probably should have just checked it since you were the BB. That way, if you flop a good hand, the others won't be expecting the BB to have a great hand sine he just limped in. At most, you should put in 300 chips (200 more), but that would be the max. That really might not even be a value raise because the other two already in the hand would probably call it.

You should have checked the flop. When you are on a draw, no matter how good, you always want to see the most free cards. Depending on how the guy bet the flop would determine how you play the hand. If he throw out a minimum bet, definitely call with the nut flush draw plus two overs. If it was an all-in (or even something like 500-600) you should fold. Save your chips for another hand when you actually have made a hand, instead of when you are on a draw.

Remember, just because you are on a draw, again no matter how good, you still only have a very poor hand and you will not always hit your draw.

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cky12 - PokerStars
cky12 - FullTilt

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Thanks for taking it easy on me fonz LOL. I thought a 5x the BB raise was a tad bit high pre-flop but I was playing "tight" and thought the large bet would just get me the pot before any action took place. What would have been an appropriate pre-flop raise there? 2x, 3x, 4x?? ....... As for the raise after the flop, I know I was wrong there. But I hate to check and show weakness. ( I need to work on that ) I had a drawing hand only, I know. 4 to the nut flush and 2 over cards. ( 15 outs ) 3-1 shot. The "ALL-IN" I had to call. it was $525 to win $3075 (6-1). Is my thinking wrong on this? Go ahead beat me up, I'm just trying to learn from you guys. I can take it.

Okay, This is a CLASSIC example of how important position is. I agree with Fonz pretty much. I dont think the opening raise was THAT bad ( only because it would have accomplished your intention of everyone folding had you been playing with rational folks) but it was a too high and the opening raise often dictates the rest of the hand. By putting almost a third of your chips in pre-flop and not having great position you are now in a pickle if you get a caller and dont hit the flop, which is exactly what happened. What happened if you got re-raised? you would almost have to call or lose 1/3 of your stack without seeing a card, literally giving them away.

After the flop it was all about position. Acting first with that crappy flop, if you checked you were basically raising a white flag saying, I only have high cards. If you did that you would be bet into and almost have to fold or put all your chips in the middle with A high. Your actual bet of 600 is WAAAAYY to high for this spot...The guy only had about 1100 chips left so he probably would have folded if he did not hit the flop, unless he had AK in which you were beat anyway. If he did have you beat, you just pot committed yourself, which is what happened. It seems that you never had an exit strategy and by the time you knew what you got yourself into, it was too late.

I think it all started by making way to big a bet out of position with a relatively marginal hand. AJ is okay, but not strong enough to bet 1/3 of your chips in EP on only level 4. 300$ would have been a good pre-flop bet. It would have got your point across and still allowed you to get away from the hand......

On a good note, this is the biggest mistake that people ( including myself) make and it is easy to correct. I would just stick to the 3 x BB raise amount and dont vary from that for awhile. I am only an amatuer myself but lately I have tried correcting this mistake and it pays off.


EDIT: I just noticed that you had a flush draw so after the flop the correct move was to move all in or check and decide from there. If you knew that you were going to commit all your chips to a re-raise ( you had to at that point cause you were committed) you should have put them all in to begin with and forced him to think that you might have a big pair in the hole.

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Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

lol - sorry mate
dont worry - i found that out the hard way - im still prone to making silly all in calls when i get bored or lose concentration

i dont think you definately needed to raise pre flop - but 2x at most i would say, just to get rid of drawers and guys with hands like 9K

i would have put in a much smaller raise or just checked at the flop - theres no point throwing good money after bad and you were still drawing at this point (although the flop was good for drawing)

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Thanks KIKOLO. I was trying to steal and it backfired. I was hoping to represent high pair and get him to fold both preflop and after. I know I would have folded with K-9 in that spot. But thanks for the advise. Oh by the way, congrats on Tejada getting the MVP in the All-Star game. I'm a Red Sox fan though so dont expect too many compliments from me this year. You guys definitely got our number.

OK, now we are talking. Thanks guys for all the posts. You dont realize how much your advice and comments really help out. I'm just learning and I hesitate to post sometimes in fear of being ridiculed. But you guys are great, Thanks!!! Soon I'll take everything I've learned from you guys and enter one of the THF tourneys.

As fonz said, using only 2 or 3x's the BB as an inital raise can help you save a lot of chips when reraised. It is much easier to get away from a hand when you havent committed a thrid or fourth of your stack preflop. Just using this chip management technique can help you save chips for when you do flop a monster and can be paid off. Or if the cards aren't coming your way, atleast you can last a little longer

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