Tourny play JJ?

How well do you guys think I played this? there is 450 people left in the tourny out of 650 that entered. You can see the blinds and my chip count. I think overall I made the right plays. My explanation is that there were 4-5 others in the pot, you HAD to assume one of them was checking with a A-rag or K-rag at least. so JJ's wouldn't hold up to that. Plus it's early in the tournament. If so many didn't call pre-flop to me, I would've raised probably 2-3x BB. What do you guys think? I think I played it correctly, but I could use someone else's strategy in this scenario. Thanks.

PokerStars Game #1714659626: Tournament #7943941, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/05/17 - 10:37:43 (ET)
Table '7943941 28' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: nj4thst (1990 in chips)
Seat 2: gbortz (1630 in chips)
Seat 3: dougt1957 (4835 in chips)
Seat 4: Neutrality (1295 in chips)
Seat 5: bigwadocash (3490 in chips)
Seat 6: go_man1 (2075 in chips)
Seat 7: dma1508 (1100 in chips)
Seat 8: Patron07 (3300 in chips)
Seat 9: Pellefant (1800 in chips)
bigwadocash: posts small blind 25
go_man1: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Neutrality [Jc Jd]
dma1508: folds
Patron07: calls 50
Pellefant: calls 50
nj4thst: calls 50
gbortz: folds
dougt1957: folds
Neutrality: calls 50
bigwadocash: calls 25
go_man1: checks
*** FLOP *** [3h As Kc]
bigwadocash: checks
go_man1: checks
Patron07: checks
Pellefant: checks
nj4thst: checks
Neutrality: checks
*** TURN *** [3h As Kc] [5d]
bigwadocash: folds
go_man1: checks
Patron07: checks
Pellefant: checks
nj4thst: checks
Neutrality: checks
*** RIVER *** [3h As Kc 5d] [6d]
go_man1: checks
Patron07: checks
Pellefant: bets 180
nj4thst: calls 180
Neutrality: folds
go_man1: folds
Patron07: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Pellefant: shows [2s 2h] (a pair of Deuces)
nj4thst: shows [3d 5h] (two pair, Fives and Threes)
Pellefant said, "well... except that time..."
nj4thst collected 660 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 660 | Rake 0
Board [3h As Kc 5d 6d]
Seat 1: nj4thst showed [3d 5h] and won (660) with two pair, Fives and Threes
Seat 2: gbortz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: dougt1957 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Neutrality (button) folded on the River
Seat 5: bigwadocash (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 6: go_man1 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 7: dma1508 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Patron07 folded on the River
Seat 9: Pellefant showed [2s 2h] and lost with a pair of Deuces

well, I think there was alot of mistakes here and I dont think you played it well at all. Your rationale for not raising is exactly why you should raise.

Mistake #1. You did not raise pre-flop. By not raising, you allowed someone with Ax or Kx to stay in the hand ( or worse, like the guy who ended up winning the pot. YOU HAD TO RAISE PRE-FLOP. Even if you were re-raised, at least you know what you are up against. There is no way the 3-5 stays in the had with a nice 3 xBB raise.

Mistake #2. I understand why you would check on the flop, and I have no problem with that. But when it got checked to you on the turn, you HAD to raise to see where you were at in the hand. This is the exact situation that I like to use a feeler bet to see if my hand is good. Especially since you had good position in the hand. This is why position is so important.
Take advantage of it. now I know that the 3-5 would have re-raised you but that is not the point. At no time in this hand did you ever try to figure out where you were. This is tight weak play. You wait for good hands, and then dont play them agressively when you get them.


But Mistake #1 was the fatal error for me. If You raise pre-flop and even if your opponenet calls with Kx, you have a good chance of winning the pot later because you represented a strong hand and followed up with more aggression to make them believe you.

__________________
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

I hate pocket Js myself, but i would definatley raise pre flop, unless i was under the gun. If i was under the gun, i would just call allowing someone else to raise, then re-raise them depending on how big there raise is. After the flop was checked all round, i would definatly of bet on the turn. I would of never checked it all the way to the end. You gave the other players to many chances to catch up with you. Your chip count was also fairly low, so maybe an all pre flop was the correct play.

-Chance Favours The Prepared Mind-

I agree. pocket jacks are a horrible hand Pocket Pair Poll There is a link to vote for the hardest pocket pair to play. I vote for JJ's because of the chances of some on playing AK/KQ/AQ are pretty high and then hiting an A/K/Q on the flop. The your JJ's are worth CRAP.

I agree with MAGICARD you should have raised pre-flop and pushed those low player with low cards out. IE...the winner. The twos might have stayed in but im sure your could have pushed them out.

All in all i think you played the so wrong. No raise, no bets, and well you ended up losing.

Me, I'm all in with this hand preflop. JJ is tough to go to the river with what with so many overcards still around. If I win the all-in I double or triple up and in this case have 2500 or higher. Anyone who has the guts to call my all-in and outdraws me so be it, but I'm going down with JJ in a blaze of glory LOL And there is always the possibility no one will call you and it's not much but you pick up the blinds and the callers before you. In your case was about 225TC not much but better than nothing.

The game is called no limit and the ability to go all-in at any point makes you a very dangerous player. Not to mention there were no raises before you and this tells me you are not dominated by any of them. and you probably dominate them if fact. This only leaves the blinds toworry about. True one of them could have a hand but you can't worry about that. You have to make your move and let everyone else worry about what YOU have.

I couldn't agree more with Starlight, I too would have gone all in.

I have always said, All ins are a complete slap in the face to your skill.

I save my all ins for when I have a player completly tricked and i know i have him, and for when times are rough, and if I don't move in I will fade off.

I have taken a lot of criticism for this, especially when i'm being blinded out. But it works for me and I do really well with this strategy. Most of the criticism came from small buyins and THF freerolls. So I was keen to ignoring them, otherwise i just get annoyed.
----------------

Franky, to add to what you said about raising with these preflop, the problem here was there were too many people in the hand.

Franky mentioned you didn't bet to get your read. With jacks, you must get a read. They are so difficult to play because JJ can not be played correctly without having some kind of read on people.

This is how I go about reading my opponents with JJ. Firstly you are in late position preflop, that is a great thing. Now you know 4 people (plus you) will be in the hand plus one if the small blind calls. That can be 6 people. That can not happen with jacks.

Preflop you bet (i like 5-6x the BB in this situation, it depends on the table and chips in play) so that any bad hands limping in get out. Now you can assume face cards are in the hand. This also narrows the feild to hopefully around 3 people

On the flop, any scare cards that come out, assume they hit. If you are in late position and its checked to you, bet to get a read on who has what. Otherwise check in early position, and fold to solid bets. You need to be ready to let go of jacks. Jacks will lose you good money because they look so good its hard to lay them down. Many people have this problem.

If you were in early position on the flop and checked, then no one bet, go ahead and make a solid bet on the turn and again read your opponents with this.

Most of the time you will not get to the river with jacks, and if you do, you are likely to lose. There are a lot of other situation based factors you must adjust to while playing with jacks, but thats something you must develop on your own. This is just a baseline way of going about playing jacks.

I agree with this 100% ( that being said, I dont always follow my own advice. Discipline, or lack there of, is my biggest flaw. But I am working on it)

I dont see a need to commit all your chips here when you can get your desired result without committing your entire stack, ESPECIALLY in a tournament and you are in great postion acting second to last. If you are trying to get one on one, all-in is overkill. If you want to win the pot right there, you can usually do it for about 300$( at this blind level) without committing all your chips. If you get a caller at 300$, you at least start to get an idea of what you are up against and you are probably still ahead since Q's, K's, or A's would probably re-raise you a good amount. I am not saying that all in is a terrible play, I am just saying that I would not go about it that way. Its not like he is in THAT bad of shape ( he still has 26 BB) If my only choices are to go all in or limp, all-in is by far the superior play. But in tournaments, you NEVER want to jeopardize all your chips if you dont have to. I like to think of chips as soldiers, why send 1200 troops to battle, when you can win the war with 300 and still have 900 for another battle or re-inforcements if you need them. ( this is corny, I know, but it was the best analogy I have, sorry)

__________________
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.

just to prove I try and practice what I preach. not a great pot but a pot just the same.

PokerStars Game #1717212585: Tournament #7943968, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/05/17 - 19:52:01 (ET)
Table '7943968 104' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: fjeldged (2601 in chips)
Seat 3: ags807 (2305 in chips)
Seat 4: FrankyDaPit (2640 in chips)
Seat 5: str8cashhomy (4245 in chips)
Seat 6: max0816 (1305 in chips)
Seat 7: BRONCOSMG3 (2575 in chips)
Seat 8: buddysbluff (3700 in chips)
Seat 9: timmydime22 (2685 in chips)
BRONCOSMG3: posts small blind 50
buddysbluff: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to FrankyDaPit [Jc Jh]
timmydime22: folds
fjeldged: folds
Snurulf is connected
ags807: folds
FrankyDaPit: raises 400 to 500
str8cashhomy said, "i was going to raise but u just went ahead and did it for u"
str8cashhomy: folds
max0816: folds
BRONCOSMG3: folds
buddysbluff: folds
FrankyDaPit collected 250 from pot
FrankyDaPit: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 250 | Rake 0
Seat 1: fjeldged folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ags807 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: FrankyDaPit collected (250)
Seat 5: str8cashhomy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: max0816 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: BRONCOSMG3 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: buddysbluff (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: timmydime22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

__________________
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.