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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Hand Histories

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Old 02-28-2007, 06:00 AM
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Angry Idiots

I guess my 4x BB pre flop and my 2.5x pot raise on the flop weren't enough.
Oh, by the way, this is the first hand of the tourney.

Hand history converted with the TexasHoldemForums Hand History Converter
SB/BB: 10/20
Preflop:
NoBigKicker is on the button with ,
drups1 folds, SterlingKid folds, King Mofo calls, onearmedbana folds, GWCGWC folds, DoubleTurds folds, NoBigKicker raises to 80, hadad abe calls, jakeevan folds, King Mofo calls.

Flop: , ,
hadad abe checks, King Mofo checks, NoBigKicker bets 620, hadad abe raises to 1420 and is all-in, King Mofo folds, NoBigKicker calls and is all-in.

Turn:


River:


Final Pot: 3100
NoBigKicker has ,
hadad abe has ,

Winner: hadad abe
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:44 AM
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First hand of the tourney, I may try this out myself. I wouldn't make the call on the flop, but preflop - sure! Remember - 80 is only 5.3% of my chipstack, and blinds won't be going up for a while. If I miss, oh well. If I hit big, however - I have a quick double up with a donk table image. Oh wait, I'm a donk anyways..
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:31 PM
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2.5x the pot is asking for trouble in most circumstances since u will normally be called by a stronger hand like a set or 2 pair. The other guy may be a donk (like Mars) but he made a 7-card straight, he deserves to double up, do u know how freakin hard it is to make a 7 card straight.
  
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:08 PM
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Ouch. I would have put the guy on a flush draw or maybe a set. Although I probably would have played it the same way, generally you're only going to get called by a big hand. In the end your QQ is still only 1 pair when the average winning holdem hand is 2 pair.

I've lost count how many times I've lost with AA or KK and running head first into a small set.
  
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:39 PM
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Its hard to find the right amount to bet when you get those high pocket pairs. You want to get some action but put out 200 or 300 and everyone folds. Put out 90 to 150 and the whole table calls with all kinds of crap and your dead. I'm beginning to think your better off over-raising and just taking the blinds and to get those players like Ko6mars and Kaart to fold the junk they are willing to play.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k06mars View Post
First hand of the tourney, I may try this out myself. I wouldn't make the call on the flop, but preflop - sure! Remember - 80 is only 5.3% of my chipstack, and blinds won't be going up for a while. If I miss, oh well. If I hit big, however - I have a quick double up with a donk table image. Oh wait, I'm a donk anyways..
No offense mars, but I can see you making the call pre-flop with the same garbage he had. But seriously, 4x the BB raise is a standard raise that says I have a hand so fold your crap. Even though it's only 5.3% of your stack you can't be making plays like this. A few of these calls in bad position with crap is only going to make your good hands less profitable later.

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Originally Posted by speks00 View Post
2.5x the pot is asking for trouble in most circumstances since u will normally be called by a stronger hand like a set or 2 pair. The other guy may be a donk (like Mars) but he made a 7-card straight, he deserves to double up, do u know how freakin hard it is to make a 7 card straight.
Asking for trouble? He deserves to double up? I hope you're kidding. If you play like this you can play at my table anytime. I will be glad to have you.

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Originally Posted by Dinero2005 View Post
Ouch. I would have put the guy on a flush draw or maybe a set. Although I probably would have played it the same way, generally you're only going to get called by a big hand. In the end your QQ is still only 1 pair when the average winning holdem hand is 2 pair.

I've lost count how many times I've lost with AA or KK and running head first into a small set.
He was on a draw, that's just it. If he hit a small set then so be it. If you would've played it the same way then you too can come play on my table anytime. Your "In the end" comment proves nothing. His plays were made on a draw, before he had a hand. I ran into nothing but a retard that got rewarded for his slim draw.

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Its hard to find the right amount to bet when you get those high pocket pairs. You want to get some action but put out 200 or 300 and everyone folds. Put out 90 to 150 and the whole table calls with all kinds of crap and your dead. I'm beginning to think your better off over-raising and just taking the blinds and to get those players like Ko6mars and Kaart to fold the junk they are willing to play.
You're correct Ref, I guess I should have really over-bet the hand. Took the 50 in chips and been on my way.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NoBigKicker View Post

He was on a draw, that's just it. If he hit a small set then so be it. If you would've played it the same way then you too can come play on my table anytime. Your "In the end" comment proves nothing. His plays were made on a draw, before he had a hand. I ran into nothing but a retard that got rewarded for his slim draw.
You can't base the play on the result. "In the end" you had a pair. What hands do you beat? Lower pair and high cards. Does he make these calls with AK? How about JJ?

He was probably on crack.

Write this down (I guess I already am), I don't call raises with 35o. Unless of course you're a the table and I want to mess with ya.

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Old 02-28-2007, 10:34 PM
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No offense mars, but I can see you making the call pre-flop with the same garbage he had. But seriously, 4x the BB raise is a standard raise that says I have a hand so fold your crap. Even though it's only 5.3% of your stack you can't be making plays like this. A few of these calls in bad position with crap is only going to make your good hands less profitable later.
4xbb raise is also standard from someone on the button who's trying to make a steal. People could raise with anything half decent from this position, from Ax to 89 SOOTED. There's nothing here that says you have a hand, so I won't fold my hand. I also disagree about your comment about making bad calls with bad position with bad cards. It sets me up to bluff low straights and possibly flushes later on, and when I hold something good preflop, such as Queens, I'll get called by people like you who think I'm a complete donk. When the flop comes QJ7 and you go all in, because you have AQ and don't want to get sucked out on by 89/9T/8Ts, I will gladly call.
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinero2005 View Post
You can't base the play on the result. "In the end" you had a pair. What hands do you beat? Lower pair and high cards. Does he make these calls with AK? How about JJ?

He was probably on crack.

Write this down (I guess I already am), I don't call raises with 35o. Unless of course you're a the table and I want to mess with ya.

GL
people call anything in these micro buyins. he could have played a weak ace and flopped top pair. or he could have played a str8 draw, like he did. personally i think anyone playing 53o there is plain dumb and i agree with nbk.

i do think in these tourneys you have to way overbet preflop early, but he did make a standard bet, he didnt underbet or lure these people in. just because its 5.3% doesnt mean he has any reason to call. personally, ill take those 80 chips, and use them when i have a hand. 5.3% doesnt really give him any reason to call.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:50 PM
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i do think in these tourneys you have to way overbet preflop early, but he did make a standard bet, he didnt underbet or lure these people in. just because its 5.3% doesnt mean he has any reason to call. personally, ill take those 80 chips, and use them when i have a hand. 5.3% doesnt really give him any reason to call.
My reasoning behind playing 53o in that situation is because it is extremely easy to get away from post-flop. Let's say you play something like J2 off, simply to try and flop a monster or outplay your opponent. Flop comes J83, what do you do here? It's hard to determine whether or not your opponent has you beat, as a continuation bet would likely come from someone holding AK/AQ as well, maybe even TT/99. When the flop comes JJ5, you think you're ahead, but you don't know that your opponent has AJ. With a hand such as 53, on the flop of 558, you will generally be ahead, as it's unlikely your opponent raised with A5 - it's possible, but more likely that they will hold a stronger ace. I would be more concerned about my opponent holding 88 in this situation, personally. When you flop a straight, it most likely won't be seen, so you can go ahead and bet it, and expect to get raised.

The fact is, if you play a hand with 53o, you most likely know exactly where you are in the hand on the flop, whereas if you take a hand such as Jx/Qx, you really don't, and that's my reasoning - not the 5.3% entirely, its 5.3% coupled with the cards. Worst case scenario, you lose 80 chips. I know we always talk about how you want every chip you can get for those double up opportunities, but I rarely see double up opportunities early on in a tourney, it's not until the blinds get to 25/50 or higher that that idea becomes plausible - and by that point, 80 is not 4 blinds, but 1.6. Yes, double up a couple times and it becomes a decent amount, but are you really going to say you expect to double up a couple hands in a row without wasting a couple blinds on your JTs you limped with, but missed the flop? Hmm..might as well touch upon the subject while I'm there:

JTs is a great hand in that it holds a lot of potential. Flop 2 high cards and you have a straight draw, you have that 3% added chance of hitting a flush, etc. However, it's hard to get paid off with a hand such as JT, as if you hit a flop hard, it's very difficult to get paid off. Hit a straight? Awesome - but no one will call any raises, unless they end up holding a set - in which case, they hold 10 outs on the turn - a solid 22% chance of cracking your broadway. Hold a flush, same scenario - only here there's also a chance you don't have the best hand, and could be setting yourself up to lose a lot of chips. To bring it back to the point of my post, 35o does not hold that vulnerability. Holding trips with 35o after facing a raise is almost always the best hand, and you will almost always get paid off good. Same thing goes for when you hit the straight - even if you merely limp with 35o, or heck - it's a big blind special - can anyone here deny getting paid off big time when they flopped a monster with 35? If you didn't it's because you didn't play the hand well, or no one caught at any point in time. Can anyone here say they've lost huge pots holding 35o, from when they were forced in from the big blind? I highly doubt that, unless they were caught bluffing. Hands of "higher" value, such as JTs, KQs, etc - it is very easy to lose big pots with these hands, and I'm sure everyone here has.

In summary: While it's not smart to push all in with 35o (although if you do, you are most likely 60:40 or 70:30, not terrible odds), it is smart to occasionally call raises with the hand, as implied odds are very high, and there's always the chance you can outplay your opponent.
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