Views on this play

Ok I am thinking maybe this was a dumb call possibly even though I did win. Please let me know what you think on this, whether it was played right or not ( the raises and such).

PokerStars Game #7281342227: Hold'em Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/12/03 - 10:50:50 (ET)
Table 'Ismene V' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: scrap2k5 ($51.80 in chips)
Seat 2: Prosper777 ($106.05 in chips)
Seat 3: elkme ($25.15 in chips)
Seat 4: awwh ($95 in chips)
Seat 5: follamour ($32.15 in chips)
Seat 6: AljdrA ($85.35 in chips)
Seat 7: Raymon777 ($103.90 in chips)
Seat 8: chrisdaman77 ($57.20 in chips)
Seat 9: chad29 ($26.30 in chips)
chad29: posts small blind $0.50
scrap2k5: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chrisdaman77 [Qh Qd]
Prosper777: folds
elkme: folds
awwh: calls $1
follamour: folds
AljdrA: folds
Raymon777: folds
chrisdaman77: raises $3.50 to $4.50
chad29: calls $4
scrap2k5: folds
awwh: folds
*** FLOP *** [6h Jh Th]
chad29: checks
chrisdaman77: bets $10.45
chad29: raises $11.35 to $21.80 and is all-in
chrisdaman77: calls $11.35
*** TURN *** [6h Jh Th] [Qc]
*** RIVER *** [6h Jh Th Qc] [Qs]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chad29: shows [6d 6c] (a full house, Sixes full of Queens)
chrisdaman77: shows [Qh Qd] (four of a kind, Queens)
chrisdaman77 collected $51.90 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $54.60 | Rake $2.70
Board [6h Jh Th Qc Qs]
Seat 1: scrap2k5 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Prosper777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: elkme folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: awwh folded before Flop
Seat 5: follamour folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AljdrA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Raymon777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: chrisdaman77 (button) showed [Qh Qd] and won ($51.90) with four of a kind, Queens
Seat 9: chad29 (small blind) showed [6d 6c] and lost with a full house, Sixes full of Queens

Hmmm...well, it's a very interesting play because while the raise told you you were beat, it was not by what seemed to be the obvious hand (the made flush). A lot of this hand depends on your read of your opponent. He could have had anything ranging from a mid-pocket pair such as 99 with a flush draw, to top pair top kicker and flush draw (AhJx), or simply an already made flush (in which case, you're probably screwed - let's face it, runner runner quads or full house don't come too often). So let's go through all the possibilities and what your chances are of winning the hand are for each of them:

Opponent holds:
Lower pp, no set - you are nearly a 15:1 favorite to win the hand
KK or AA, no flush draw - 43.64% - so you're behind, but have many outs
KK or AA, flush draw - 8.79% to win the hand - you're doomed
JJ, TT, 66 - 37.07% - behind, but you have outs in a flush draw and over set
AhJx - coinflip situation
AhXh - 3.03% to win - click reload now

Now, looking at these percentages, it seems that there are 2 situations that put you in a really bad position, 1 that puts you in a really good position, and everything else really has you at 40% at worst. What you need to do is figure out where you are there based on your read. If it seems unlikely that your opponent would raise with the nuts or near nuts, go ahead and call. This is a play where it's not necessarily a right or wrong play, it all depends on how your opponent plays, something we obviously can't tell from a single hand history.

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1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League

Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame.

Yeh I agree that's it's difficult to assess the play as i all depends on what you have made of your opponent.

There are other ways I might of played it: possibly a check on the flop (and also with a view to a re-raise) or more likely, a bet on the flop of maybe 2/3 or a bit less. I think your bet is fine though and I don't think it can be seen as a bad play. If you expect him to fold say 60 or 70% of the time then it's a good bet. If he is on a flush draw he may well call since he's getting decent odds to do that.

When he re-raises allin, it's worrying but again I don't think it's a bad call. I think it does depend on how you view your opponent and what hands you think he is likely to be holding.

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I don't think a check is the right play here because his opponent could be holding AhXx. Why bother giving him a free card on his draw?

__________________
1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League

Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame.

I maybe should have explained the style of play he was using. He was looser than a 40 yr old hooker. That being said I had to use all my time thinking about this call. He is a very big chaser as I had watched him for quite a few hands. This had me a little worried. I had him pinned on at least a pr maybe a straight draw at best. I agree mars this kinda was a coin flip call. The main things I was looking at that made me able to make the call were the odds of at least trips, the boat, flush, or even better the flush was his style of play, but that also had me somewhat worried as I knew he played very loose. Now that being said IMO of my own play I have studied it over and over again and what bothers me the most is that I raised it pre-flop and still was called. Now after the flop I was first to act and raised the pot now with him in the position having 66 and calling granted he had trips but seeing 2 OC's on the table the potential for a flush draw or already made flush higher trips calling this is beyond me but in the same sense I kinda did the same thing having a pr higher than the board also being on a draw with the possibility of the Ah or Kh out there I feel that it was not the right move to make, but all this goes back to his style of play. Does any of that make sense or sound right?

No, you're right, I wouldnt check the flop Mars, I would raise.


I can see what you're saying I think Chris.

Firstly, you made a good raise. You get a call which to me maybe suggests he's playing good pockets,high cards, AK or something like JTs even- but like you said he's loose, so we don't know. You then make a bet on the flop according to your read on his play. You know he will chase and you make a pot-sized bet. If he's on a good flush draw you've given him odds to call it. (I'm not saying I'm correct but I might of bet a bit less here, maybe around $6.50 to $7.50) I don't think a call from him here with trips is such a shock. You've made a standard raise preflop, so he's likely putting you on high cards/ high pair. He's in a raised pot and his hand looks pretty good.

I don't think the boat comes into your thinking here, since you just have a pair when you make the call. With your flush draw you have further outs but no nut draw(unless you hit quads or a straight-flush/royal flush)

If this was me, I'm thinking I'm on worse than a coin flip.
I'm assuming that there's a possibility I'm ahead. Realistically, ignoring what might fall on the turn, I have 11 outs ( or less) to trips or a flush. I'm thinking I'm a little better than 40% to hit. It's a dodgy call but it's a good pot and I might of made the same call considering your read on him.

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May/June '07
....Team:7 Black Balls
.... Sunday Lge Team Champs

Nov/Dec '07
....Team: 7Balls
....Sunday Lge Team Champs
....Sunday Lge Individual RunnerUp

Jan/Feb '08
....Sunday Lge Individual RunerUp

June/July '08
....Midweek League
....Winner

the most important thing i got out of this hand is you dont have BR managment.
other than that u played the hand fine, and thats an easy call vs a shorter stack ( shorter because u are short already ).
i dont know what ur BR is, but i dont think its over 2k. proper BR managment is the most important factor separating succesful from unsuccesful poker players.

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