please tell me what I did wrong?

10-05-2006, 04:33 AM

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soulite

DJUCKET's goin' down

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please tell me what I did wrong?

So I don't do it again ~s~

Event Name: Sit & Go Table Canpagna (#3256170)
Event Started: Wednesday October 4th 10:23:28 PM CDT 2006
Event Type: Real Money Satellite
Event Buy-In: $0.50+$0.05
Total Prize Pool: $5
Game: No Limit Hold 'em
Level I: 25/50 Blinds (25 Minimum Chip)
Starting Chips: 1,000
Starting Players: 10
Seat 1 : guitarsun007 starts with 1,000
Seat 2 : mshhhon starts with 950
Seat 3 : brownie starts with 950
Seat 4 : SheTilts starts with 1,000
Seat 5 : soulite starts with 1,000
Seat 6 : MEMG starts with 1,000
Seat 7 : pokerqueen88 starts with 1,000
Seat 8 : tigerkat starts with 1,000
Seat 9 : P_Shazzle starts with 1,000
Seat 10 : cowboyjones starts with 1,100
Seat 2 : mshhhon has the dealer button
****>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
soulite dealt down

brownie posts the small blind 25
SheTilts posts the big blind 50
soulite raises 125 to 175
MEMG calls 175
pokerqueen88 calls 175
tigerkat folds
P_Shazzle folds
cowboyjones calls 175
guitarsun007 folds
mshhhon folds
brownie folds
SheTilts folds
****>DEALING FLOP<<<

soulite bets 775
MEMG folds
pokerqueen88 raises 50 to 825 and is all-in
cowboyjones folds
soulite calls 50 and is all-in
pokerqueen88 cards were 7d Ad
soulite cards were Td Tc
****>DEALING TURN<<<

****>DEALING RIVER<<<

pokerqueen88 wins 2,425 with an ace high flush
soulite has left the table
soulite finishes in 10th place

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Last edited by soulite; 10-05-2006 at 04:37 AM. Reason: just cause i wanted to use them nifty cards! ~g~

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10-05-2006, 04:47 AM

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Adaon

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You bet most of your chips on a board with an overcard and a flush draw with 2 people to act.

I would love to commit chips if this made a set, I don't want to take the chance a KQ or QJ is behind me. On the first level of blinds, the worst mistake you can make is committ a lot of chips with a weak hand. The preflop raise sets you up to loose a big one, keep it small at the early stages and build up your aggression.

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10-05-2006, 04:50 AM

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soulite

DJUCKET's goin' down

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Ahhh, ok
~nod~ thank you

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10-05-2006, 01:12 PM

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Stormswa

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you have no idea here if you are behind or ahead on the flop, you bet pretty much your whole stack and pretty much just said damit I give up. You have to bet to see if he has that Q or not.

Now not saying his play was that great either calling on flush draw and overcard he was about 40% to hit so in retrospect you got your money in good but that dosent mean you played it correctly. Basicly I would of bet about 1/2 the pot which gives the flush draw just enough outs to call. If he would of had the Q he would or raised you and you could get away from your hand. You want a flush draw to call because they are only going to make that hand 33% of the time and you want chasers in the pot. Ok so now we know because he just calls that he is on a flush draw and you could really make him pay on turn, of course this guy will call and catch but that happens, you would of made him pay for it and more importantly you would of known you were ahead.

remember with tens there will be a overcard come out alot of the times but that dosent mean that you are not still good. But commiting your whole stack with multiple draws out plus a overcard plus someone haveing bigger pair or set is not something I want to do. I usually dont push all in on flops because I dont feel I gain enough information about my opponents hand this way. Unless of course I have a very strong read on a player then I might, remember you can not get bad players to fold hands, against a good player this play will work but against a bad player they are calling.

Last edited by Stormswa; 10-05-2006 at 01:19 PM.

10-05-2006, 02:44 PM

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PokerRef

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You put in way too many chips on the flop. After you raised pre-flop UTG, 3 others called. You have to assume someone is playing some pp or a strong Ace. Holding a pair of tens with a Q on the board you should bet out when first to act but only a feeler bet and not pot commit yourself. I know in this instance the feeler bet would not have chased out the flush chaser but by him calling you had to think he had something and could then check the turn and river, If he happens to bet out you can then fold with minimal chip loss. Its too early in the match to get involved in that big a pot with those cards.

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10-05-2006, 03:40 PM

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RacingDog

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You did something I do a lot, just raised the size of the pot preflop. It's hard, especially as many sites give you a "Raise Pot" button not to do this, especially if like me you prefer pot limit. But basically most online players are pretty stupid when it comes to pot odds. Most have never heard of them, and most of those who have are too idle to figure it. They judge the strength of a bet purely on the size relative to your stack and theirs. So to attract the attention of these people to the fact you have a premium hand and hence thin the field the way a pot sized raise ought to, you have to overbet the pot, if first to act that means 4 or 5 times the BB. To the poker purist that is heresy, but it is just the practicalities of online play. Even then, if the blinds are small compared to the stack sizes, there will still be one or two with more optimism than sense. (Someone please kick me under the table and remind me to raise more, 'cos I keep forgetting!)

So the effect of this was that after the flop, when you wanted to find out where you stood, which you would normally do with a pot sized bet, there was too much in the pot. If you had had only one caller the pot size raise would have been more affordable. So yes, as stated above 1/2 pot might have been better. But against on liners even that can tell you nothing because many people think it is clever to slow play top pair, even when it is a dodgy and vulnerable top pair. So you may not have got a re-raise from someone with the Q.

This situation is one of my personal nightmares. I don't think there IS a correct way of playing this as there are too many variables. I know I'm supposed to be aggresive because good players are aggressive. But almost every time I try it with this scenario I get busted, some wise guy was slow playing AA or KK all along etc etc. So at least half the time, especially when I'm in one of my more cautious moods, I'll just check the flop and see what happens. Occassionally this goes wrong when some optimist decides an under pair needs betting to the hilt and you fold thinking he had the Q. But an occasional loss of some chips is better than regular disasters.

Depending what hits the turn, presuming I'm still in, then a big bet is probably called for. I might have walked into a trap, but hey you can't avoid them all the time. Also, at this point, the flush chaser should fold. Some have absolutely no understanding of odds and fail to realise that the odds have changed drastically against them now that one more card has been played. You can't legislate for that, make the bet and hope you haven't found an idiot.

Yeah, I know people, I know. The gung-ho fraternity are going to give me stick for recommending a passive play. Just remember what I said to start with guys, your methods usually fail when I try them. There again, wouldn't it be boring if we all played the same way?

10-05-2006, 11:40 PM

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7letters

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I read and agree with much of what has been said already.

I'll add that UTG with TT, I'd be happy with just calling the BB and seeing a flop.

Oh, another thing I thought when I read the HH Soulite. I'd be happier playing an SnG with bigger starting stacks and a less expensive Level I. 1,000 chips and 50BB doesnt give you a lot to work with does it? Was it a turbo? I don't like those.

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10-06-2006, 12:50 AM

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Scottishben

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OK first of all some good advice here so far. There are many ways of playing this wonderful game and that does account for some of the slight differences in what is being suggested.

It is particularly good to see an interesting contribution from storm who I had not encountered on the boards so far.

Now my slant. Essentially you got good odds for your chips so you did fine. I may be over selling your skills but if you are able to get decent odds for your chips that is a good start and at some level thats pretty strong evidence in any court.

Here is what i didn't like and I think if you change you might improve your EV BUT remember you have to find a style that suits you - my style may not...

a) I do not like the preflop raise with 1010. 1010 is an incredibly vulerable hand and it really does not fair well when there are several people in the pot. this game is50cents buy in AND a satelite and that means you are going to get lots of floppers (people who will call most bets for less than a quarter of their chips whatever their holdings), loose players (more likely to call raises with hands like aj etc) and just general crazies.

I am not saying fold 1010 preflop but do not commit many chips when you may end up with 3 plus others in the pot and then it might as well be 22 as 1010 on many flops. Raising this much with 1010 might be good in certain buyin levels but you want to be able to get some isolation heads up 1010 does well but this is unlikely to happen in a 50cents tourney.

b) In a higher stakes game your bet on the flop could serve purpose. Someone with qj might consider folding etc but otherwise you are risking getting knocked out and this is something that in tourneys you should try to avoid. Bear in mind that someone could have a or k with a flush draw. as well as flushes they also have overcards so could get good odds to call you, also there is a decent chance that someone will have a queen. You are risking LOTS of chips when you could easily be dominated and are unlikely to get a fold. To me the fact that you are risking loads of chips is bad (i have won plenty of 1 table satelites by hardly playing a hand for the first 30 min and then destroying opponents with my HU and shortstack game. You simply do not need to be this gladitorial in risking your chips when there is no need to. That said you might have a better sense of the players at this buy in level (i am generally 20$ MTTs) so a good return on expected value from the flop might have made it a stronger play than it appears to me.

So my advice is -

a) take other peoples advice with a pinch of salt - it can be really helpful but you have to find whats right for you
b) try to sense what you want to happen from your preflop action do you want all ins preflop, a cheap flop with 5 in, a flop with only one other in, etc etc what you have in your hand and who is at your table affects this
c) try to avoid or restrict plays that leave you vulnerable to a tournament exit. It makes you very vulnerable to "bad beats"

please tell me what I did wrong?

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