i love it when a suck out calls you a donkey *g*

Hand Number: 357,180,435
Table Number: 4,971,968
Event Name: Silver League $20 Table Gagilano (#3238886)
Event Started: Friday September 29th 7:38:00 AM CDT 2006
Event Type: Real Money Ring Game
Game: No Limit Hold 'em
Stakes: $0.10/$0.25 Blinds ($0.05 Minimum Chip)
Seat 1 : kozmoe starts with $7.50
Seat 2 : octopus-5 starts with $15.70
Seat 3 : krayzie1248 starts with $2.35
Seat 4 : ak4uaa4me starts with $19.35
Seat 5 : soulite starts with $4
Seat 6 : Asfaloth54 starts with $19.20
Seat 7 : skyhawk1456 starts with $29.55
Seat 8 : hawk35 starts with $6.15
Seat 10 : Coloradolady starts with $30.35
Seat 10 : Coloradolady has the dealer button
kozmoe posts the small blind $0.10
octopus-5 posts the big blind $0.25
****>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
soulite dealt down 4c Ac
krayzie1248 calls $0.25
ak4uaa4me folds
soulite raises $0.25 to $0.50
Asfaloth54 folds
skyhawk1456 folds
hawk35 folds
Seat 9 : anitaburnafat starts with $10
Coloradolady folds
kozmoe calls $0.40
octopus-5 calls $0.25
krayzie1248 calls $0.25
****>DEALING FLOP<<< [ Kc 5c 5d ]
kozmoe checks
octopus-5 bets $0.50
krayzie1248 folds
soulite calls $0.50
kozmoe folds
****>DEALING TURN<<< [ Jh ]
octopus-5 bets $1.95
soulite raises $1.05 to $3 and is all-in
octopus-5 calls $1.05
****>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 9c ]
soulite cards were Ac 4c
octopus-5 mucks hand
soulite wins $8.55 with an ace high flush
****>SUMMARY<<<
Hand Ended: Friday September 29th 11:06:07 PM CDT 2006
Total Pot: $8.55 ($0.45 rake)
Board: [ Kc 5c 5d Jh 9c ]
Seat 1 : kozmoe (small blind) lost $0.50, folded on the flop
Seat 2 : octopus-5 (big blind) lost $4, mucked hand (cards were 5s 4s)
Seat 3 : krayzie1248 lost $0.50, folded on the flop
Seat 4 : ak4uaa4me did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 5 : soulite bet $4, won $8.55, net +$4.55, showed hand [ Ac 4c ]
Seat 6 : Asfaloth54 did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 7 : skyhawk1456 did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 8 : hawk35 did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 10 : Coloradolady (button) did not bet, folded pre-flop

Mary, i really don't know what to say. Raising with A-rag suited at a full or near-full table is never a good move, unless you have really good position(i.e., are the dealer), or have a REALLY good read on your opponents. This especially goes when you are shortstacked (simply wondering, why were you sitting with only 16 blinds?!). octopus had every right to call your raise preflop, suited connectors, no matter how low, are very capable of calling a min-raise, especially when the first bet was the blind! He had you, and you sucked out on him. Now, while it wasn't an extreme case of calling with terrible pot odds, that is simply because you held limited funds. You can't consider him a suckout by any means.

Now, let's look at your play:
-You raise preflop in bad position with A-rag suited - a play that is questionable at best.
-You call a min-bet on the flop with a flush draw (I am not questioning this here, although with your stack it probably would have been better to simply raise all in at this point).
-With a pot of $4.95, you raise the bet from $1.95 to $3. You put in $3 to win $6 (you have to assume he is calling here). That's 2:1 odds, 33% odds - now, on the flop, these are odds that will let you brake even (roughly) with a flush draw. For the turn though, you will lose money in the long run. You were only an 18% favorite to mean, which means you need more than 5.5:1 odds!

I'm not trying to be mean, but octopus did have a reason to be pissed and call you a donkey.

__________________
1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League

Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame.

i disagree to an extent. the raise i agreem is not the right play here. BUT, to call her a donkey? she flopped the nut flush draw, althought it may not have won if he hit his pp (if he had one) but she HAS to call a .50 raise on the flush draw. and when she doesnt hit it, she doesnt have very much money left. she either folds or goes all in, no other play here. she took a gamble and it paid off, if she has a runer runner and hits, then shes a donkey, but i dont agree he had a reason to call her a donkey. With that much money in already and she doesnt have much left, there is nothing wrong with this play. its def a gamble but its not a donkey move.

__________________


THFSOP Event #4 Champion
THFSOP Event #8 Champion
THFSOP Event #10 Champion

Current count: 3 Bracelets

-I think that part is the most acceptable part of the play. It's gamble/a semi-bluff but I don't consider it a good play in the circumstances. If the opponent is playing trips then is he likely to put it down? How I see it, the semi-bluff idea is pretty much out of the window, so it's a straight gamble on the 4 to 1 flush shot, when even the implied pot odds are very poor.

I can't really understand playing A4 from UTG and minimum raising. Then there's the flat call on the flop. I think these are the main issues - and bankroll? I'd want at least $500 on the site to play at 25cNL.

I don't wish to appear over-critical of anyone's play. I'm still learning. Whatever level of play we are at, these forums are a place where we can speak our minds(well, type them) it all helps to make us stronger players.

I'd played cards for money for most of my life, even as a child. When I first started playing online NL texas hold em was a new game to me and after early successes - I thought I could run before I could walk - Like many players do, I often played above my bankroll and I think I lost a couple of deposits before I realised that I needed to find out why I was losing. Books, websites and especially THF have helped me and I'm glad people criticised my plays when they did.

__________________
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I'd have to disagree with the statement that any suited connectors are playable against a raise. Please refer to the starting hand odds guide on this site. In general suited connectors are slightly less than 3% better than unsuited. That is not exactly a lot to shout about.

Let's take 98s as an example ('cos the numbers are easiest to work with). The win % is give as 12.4 approx. Lets be generous and make the numbers easy, call it 12.5%. As a fraction that is 1/8, so the odds of wining are 7/1. So to call with this hand (raising is a separate issue so don't argue, I know that) you need to have at least seven times the size of your bet already in the pot to get pot odds, otherwise, in the long run, you will lose a packet. So most of the time 98s preflop is an auto fold. The only way to play is to raise as a semi bluff in late position only when everyone else has folded (or maybe one caller who you know can be bullied).

Lower suited connectors are even worse.

But it is worse than this against a raise. The percentages in the table only refer to random opposing hands. Against a raise the hands are no longer random, a lot of the seriously crap hands that you would win against have been ruled out, otherwise the guy wouldn't be raising, which leaves a set of hands you are very unlikely to win against. So you need pot odds of greater than 7/1 to call any raise. In the hand above there was $1.50 in the pot for a call of $0.25. Odds of 6/1. So he should have folded.

And lets just suppose you hit something on the board. You could still be losing! It could be the nightmare, a higher flush against you, a scenario for going seriously broke in.

So basically the guy was being excedingly biased in his comments. His initial call was bad. He sucked out on the flop, then he bitches about getting a suck out back at him. Bull. He shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place so he deserved all he got.

As for the play of A4s. No. A small raise if all have folded to you is maybe ok in late position, or even a big raise if you are stealing, but when there are already callers in the pot a small raise is asking for trouble so fold, or call if you must, but don't raise (unless the callers can be bullied, then you must raise big).