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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Hand Histories

grrrrrrrrrr! i hate chasers!

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Old 09-29-2006, 08:16 AM
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Hand Number: 356,897,729
Table Number: 4,971,191
Event Name: Bronze League Table Batista (#3238358)
Event Started: Thursday September 28th 11:50:00 PM CDT 2006
Event Type: Real Money Ring Game
Game: No Limit Hold 'em
Stakes: $0.02/$0.05 Blinds ($0.01 Minimum Chip)
Seat 1 : checkm8 starts with $1.39
Seat 2 : wild_diamond starts with $1.15
Seat 3 : Jorge0620 starts with $1.79
Seat 4 : ChineseKid starts with $2.13
Seat 5 : UnTz starts with $0.31
Seat 6 : soulite starts with $0.93
Seat 6 : soulite has the dealer button
checkm8 posts the small blind $0.02
wild_diamond posts the big blind $0.05
****>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
soulite dealt down Jd Js
Jorge0620 folds
ChineseKid calls $0.05
UnTz folds
soulite raises $0.25 to $0.30
checkm8 folds
wild_diamond calls $0.25
ChineseKid calls $0.25
****>DEALING FLOP<<< [ Jc 7h 8h ]
wild_diamond checks
ChineseKid checks
soulite bets $0.63 and is all-in
wild_diamond calls $0.63
ChineseKid raises $0.63 to $1.26
wild_diamond calls $0.22 and is all-in
ChineseKid takes back $0.41
****>DEALING TURN<<< [ Kh ]
****>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 6h ]
ChineseKid cards were 9d Jh
soulite cards were Js Jd
wild_diamond mucks hand
ChineseKid wins $0.42 with a king high flush
ChineseKid wins $2.67 with a king high flush
ChineseKid: omg
soulite: moron chaser
ChineseKid: wow
soulite: idiot
****>SUMMARY<<<
Hand Ended: Friday September 29th 2:04:27 AM CDT 2006
Total Pot: $3.09 ($0.16 rake)
Board: [ Jc 7h 8h Kh 6h ]
Seat 1 : checkm8 (small blind) lost $0.02, folded pre-flop
Seat 2 : wild_diamond (big blind) lost $1.15, mucked hand (cards were Tc Qs)
Seat 3 : Jorge0620 did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 4 : ChineseKid bet $1.15, won $3.09, net +$1.94, showed hand [ 9d Jh ]
Seat 5 : UnTz did not bet, folded pre-flop
Seat 6 : soulite (button) lost $0.93, showed hand [ Js Jd ]

---------------------

needless to say, he left the table
but note: I will see him again, and it won't be pretty
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:17 AM
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oh, ya..
..i put my 2 cents in there, too
i think i scared him away *g*
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:50 PM
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Bad luck there Soulite. Don't scare him away tho

It's difficult at these levels sometimes isnt it and you've gotta expect the chasers. On another day you'd be happy that players like Chinesekid (and especially wild_diamond - don't know why he was in this hand) are there to pay you off.

I can understand your anger. Particularly after the hand when you see what cards they are playing.

I'll say what I think about the hand. Not saying I'm correct though and you may get other opinions here too. I think you played the hand ..ok, but I might of played it differently and I think there are ways to get away from this.

The preflop raise from that position is ok I think -but it's a very large raise, too large I think and I do think it is possible just to make a call there and see what the flop brings.

Anyway you get two calls ( why- I don't know lol) I think it's suprising here that you do get a call and in most cases after that raise, you're likely to just take the blinds or find yourself heads up against a premuim hand - and you'll likely be an underdog(or coin flip at best)

I wasnt at the table and I don't know how these people were playing but it's hard to see a reason for such a big raise, unless of course you want chasers or you want to gamble heads up against a caller/re-raiser and that is the reason why I think your preflop raise was to high. If your 6xBB raise is called OR reraised...where are you?

The flop is a pretty good one for JJ. You are beaten already by T9 and the flush and straight draws are a dangerous. You bet the rest of your stack, which I think is fair enough - you're gambling. I do think it's possible to check here and see the next card. I think you can expect calls here from anyone with pockets, a flush draw, or flush with a gutshot draw, up and down straight etc.

wild_diamond comes in and chinesekid is faced with a call of 63c into a pot of $2.18 -even if his isnt aware of it, he's getting odds of around 3.5 to 1 from the pot. It's not a great play but you see worse calls with those odds with his top pair, gutshot(and also his back door flush draw I suppose)

Your preflop raise suggested something big but I suppose it's possible for him to put you on a high A, AK, AKs etc. He's prepared to gamble and infact raises to get the rest of wild-diamonds chips in the pot.

When he raises I'd guess I might be in trouble, that he's already made a hand or has a good draw and I'm hoping to get lucky and hit my outs to a boat.

Anyway, you had bad luck. wild_diamond was certainly wild and the preflop play from both of your opponents was baffling.

I think it's a tricky hand. JJ is always a tricky one for me and I think you do have to be careful how you play them. I'd of felt like I'd been unlucky to lose the hand, but like I said you want people like this at the table to pay you off when they chase and miss.

best of luck
7letters

p.s We've discussed JJ before in these forums but I think I might start another post to get other peoples views. I must admit that in a tourney or even an SnG I sometimes dread getting dealt JJ in a mid-position near the beginning of play. Always seems such a dangerous situation.
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Last edited by 7letters; 09-29-2006 at 03:12 PM.
  
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:30 PM
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7 - I understand what you're saying, and maybe I should have made a hint at how loose those two were playing when I sat down at the table.

They were in every pot, with 8 2, 9 3, you name it. Anything under the sun. I questioned them as to why, and the only thing I got back in return was "Trying to make league rankings"

Huh

at any rate, since they have been playing junk, and I had like 15 outs behind me, being dealth JJ against crap wasn't a bad idea.

Tripped on flop, I went for it.
I knew they would call it, but I guess I was hoping they would have had common sense, too.

Bah ~
next time
and there *will* be a next time
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:57 PM
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Yeh I can understand that situation Soulite. Hard to get the tone of voice over on posts sometimes, but I wasnt criticising your preflop raise(*edit that*I meant post-flop) and at a loose table like that I'd be up for a gamble too. I was just giving some other views on the hand and while it seems from your last post that they were poor players, I don't think chinesekid really played like an idiot in that particular hand. He was a bit loose but then you already knew that.

It can be really frustrating to be up against players like that. You can play tight and miss some good chances to win big pots and on the other hand you can afford to play a bit looser because they are playing loose. It's tricky.

If you'd had just a bit more in your stack you'd of maybe took the hand down on the flop. I'm not sure where your 15 outs are but you got your money in on a good hand and I would of probably done the same.

It's a dangerous hand though and with more money on the table one that needs playing carefully I think.

I think the most important point I was trying to make was the preflop play.
I'm no expert strategist, just offering my views Hopefully we'll get some others in this thread too to give their opinions.

I know how you feel though and I've been up against the same sorts of players many times. I want to hug them at times and five minutes later I want to punch them right off the screen

You'll get em next time.
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Last edited by 7letters; 09-30-2006 at 02:58 PM.
  
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:16 PM
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15 outs came in when I sat down and started folding right away. I was thinking about leaving, but got so upset at their dumb plays, I found a hand and went for it, knowing they'd call.

Oh, well.
Like I told him when I left the table - I'll be looking for him ~grin~ and it won't be pretty.

Just a run of bad luck, yanno?

It's ok.
Let me find him when my game is completely on *g*
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Old 09-30-2006, 02:33 PM
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soulite...hi... i hate to play devil's advocate here but someone has to. the thing that gets you into trouble with the fishes is your bankroll. at these low levels almost anyone is going to call with a draw unless you put alot of power behind your hand. at the micro tables it is best to buy in for the table max which is usually $5 for .01-.02. most of these people have no value what so ever for their money..heck most of em prolly got it from a free roll anyways.

but the biggest flaw i see in your play is your attitude. if you tilt that easily and to the point of calling people names like you do, it is going to be very hard for you ever be a great player. you have to be able to control you emotions in all situations. take mike the mouth for example. he is a great player most of the time, when he has himself incheck, but once he gets tilted anyone can roll over him. if you can keep that anger and frustration from commin out you will be a much better player.

in poker there is no such thing as a bad beat. we all like to sit around and talk about bad beats, but have you ever seen the dealer push a pot to someone who didnt have the best cards in the end??? everyone plays the way they want to. they have as much right to push all-in with 7-2 as you do to push with A-A. its the risk you take when you put your money in a game.


basically what i am saying is...learn to take what the game gives ya or stop playing.
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy76 View Post
soulite...hi... i hate to play devil's advocate here but someone has to. the thing that gets you into trouble with the fishes is your bankroll. at these low levels almost anyone is going to call with a draw unless you put alot of power behind your hand. at the micro tables it is best to buy in for the table max which is usually $5 for .01-.02. most of these people have no value what so ever for their money..heck most of em prolly got it from a free roll anyways.

but the biggest flaw i see in your play is your attitude. if you tilt that easily and to the point of calling people names like you do, it is going to be very hard for you ever be a great player. you have to be able to control you emotions in all situations. take mike the mouth for example. he is a great player most of the time, when he has himself incheck, but once he gets tilted anyone can roll over him. if you can keep that anger and frustration from commin out you will be a much better player.

in poker there is no such thing as a bad beat. we all like to sit around and talk about bad beats, but have you ever seen the dealer push a pot to someone who didnt have the best cards in the end??? everyone plays the way they want to. they have as much right to push all-in with 7-2 as you do to push with A-A. its the risk you take when you put your money in a game.


basically what i am saying is...learn to take what the game gives ya or stop playing.
While I agree to the importance of playing under control, and I prefer not to type my anger into the chat box, how does calling the person a moron, or idiot, infer that soulite is on tilt? I think you're reading way too much into her post.

I also disagree with the statement that there are no bad beats. Yes, at showdown the best five cards do win, but that doesn't mean the winner made a wise choice / played the hand well. For example:
  • Player A raises 4 times the BB with AA and player B calls with 72o.
  • Flop is KJ2, rainbow. Player A bets the pot and player B calls.
  • Turn is an 8. Player A bets 2/3 of the pot and player B calls, putting player B all in.
  • River is a deuce and player A's AA are cracked poorly by a chaser.
This isn't a bad beat?
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:59 PM
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nah... there was an article in bluff this month that talked about this and had some really good points in it... so im just tryin to incororate things into my philosophy to be a better card player and this one seems to help
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Old 10-01-2006, 12:13 PM
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His call isn't too awful especially at these limits. When you go all-in for your last $0.63 he has to bet $0.63 to see a pot of $1.55 giving him 2.46/1 odds (1.55/0.63). To hit his flush with 2 cards to come is 1.6/1 so it'san easy call. Slightly loose seeing as he isn't drawing to the nuts.

Never sit at the table short as you have next to no folding equity and cannot protect your hand to the full.
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