Texas Holdem Forums  
  Main Options
Home
Games Schedule
Member Blogs
Arcade
Poker Articles
Poker Odds Guide
Hand History Converter
THF Bonus Guide
Playing Online
Interviews
THF Tournaments
Member Reviews
THF Product Reviews
Gallery
Poker Links
THF Chat

  Bonus offers
Pacific Poker
25% Bonus Match up to $100
Party Poker
30% Bonus Match up to $150
CDPoker
100% Bonus Match up to $500 using bonus code THF500

  USA Friendly Site
Sportsbook.com Poker
100% Bonus Match up to $1000
  
Quick Links
Please enter your Username:  Password:  to

Welcome to the Poker Forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Click here to register.

Members get :
  • Access to all discussion rooms
  • A Chance to participate in our private member only freerolls.
  • A chance to improve their poker skills and pass on their knowledge to others.
Register today to benefit from all site privileges

Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Hand Histories

Getting the most out of a hand

Hand Histories

Convert your hand histories with the TexasHoldemForums Hand History Converter.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-25-2006, 07:08 PM
Post Number: 1 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
9-Star General
Kaartkeizer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,863
Shouts:
Credits: 11198.7734105524
Default Getting the most out of a hand

THF Player of the Year
One thing I still have to learn (but am stubborn about doing) is to get the most out of a good hand. Most of the times I bet to big scaring of my opponents and other times I bet too low. When I get called I always think 'should I have bet more?' or 'should I have bet the turn also?'. But I'm not the only one.

At the Cake tournament NBK had the nut full house and checked the river. I know he was playing against me and was hoping I would make another bet. In a situation like this should you raise on the turn and if so how much? Or should you bet the river and if so how much? I can post a HH where I had the best hand but in this pot it is more clear what went wrong (no offence NBK )

Hand #0609240000007423: THF League Game 1
Seat 2: Kaartkeizer (5600,00 in chips)
Seat 3: J0NAH (5000,00 in chips)
Seat 4: fonzerelli79 (4775,00 in chips)
Seat 7: River D Rat (5200,00 in chips)
Seat 8: NoBigKicker (3700,00 in chips)
Seat 9: jadie56 (5925,00 in chips)
Seat 10: bryan24 (4800,00 in chips)
River D Rat: posts small blind $25
NoBigKicker: posts big blind $50
Dealt to Kaartkeizer [ 6s Qs ]
jadie56: folds
bryan24: folds
Kaartkeizer: calls
J0NAH: folds
fonzerelli79: folds
River D Rat: calls
NoBigKicker: checks
*** FLOP *** [ Ts 7s 6c ]
River D Rat: checks
NoBigKicker: checks
Kaartkeizer: bets $150
River D Rat: folds
NoBigKicker: calls
*** TURN *** [ 2s ]
NoBigKicker: checks
Kaartkeizer: bets $450
NoBigKicker: calls
*** RIVER *** [ 6h ]
NoBigKicker: checks
Kaartkeizer: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Kaartkeizer: shows [ 6s Qs ] (Flush, Queen high)
NoBigKicker: shows [ Th Tc ] (Full House, Tens full of Sixes)
NoBigKicker wins $1.350 with Full House, Tens full of Sixes
__________________
That's Poker
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2006, 07:24 PM
Post Number: 2 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
fonzerelli_79's Avatar
Owner
fonzerelli_79 is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,558
Shouts:
Credits: 5185.015
Default

I was surprised to see pocket tens at the end there as with pocket tens in the big blind id usually raise because your position isnt going to be great.

You bet the pot each time here so i dont think you can say you were not betting enough. i probably would have bet on the river as I would have been a little less scared of a full house because you held a 6. Although you clearly did the right thing and he must have had something to stay in the pot at this time so it probably was the right thing to do

nothing wrong with the way you played it to be honest. Just unlucky that nbk hit trips on the flop...its very difficult to put someone on that kind of hand...particulary when they slowplay them.
__________________
Texas Holdem Resources : Hand Rankings Terminology Pre Flop Odds Odds Chart
Poker Odds Calculator - Find out if you were right to make that call!

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2006, 08:07 PM
Post Number: 3 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
9-Star General
Kaartkeizer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,863
Shouts:
Credits: 11198.7734105524
Default

THF Player of the Year
Thanks for the reply Fonz but I wasn't talking about my own hand. I was talking about the best hand after the river, NBK's hand. Should someone raise in his position and at what time? The flop, the turn? I think he should have definitely bet the river but what would be the right amount to bet. When I hold the best hand I often don't know what the highest bet is I can make to get called.

(Player names can be everyones names)
__________________
That's Poker
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2006, 09:16 PM
Post Number: 4 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
k06mars's Avatar
Job
k06mars is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Loudonville
Posts: 2,990
Shouts:
Credits: 14648.86
Default

Well, the way I see it, NBKs smooth call on the flop and turn signified that he had a very strong hand - granted, you had him on the turn, but he can't assume you have the flush, only that you have a fairly good hand as well. That 6 brought out 2 possibilities:1, he just hit a FH/Quads, or 2) he missed an inside straight draw (highly unlikely). It's also possible that he hit a higher flush on the turn, so at this point Kaart's Q-high flush is not looking very strong at all, as it wouldn't make sense for NBK to call such large bets with nothing. If I were in NBKs shoes...first off, the flop would've been bet or check-raised. Secondly, the river should've been bet, no questions asked. If Kaart was trying to bluff you the entire time, well, you gotta figure he won't try a third time. If you're beat...a small bet by you may limit the damage. It also keeps Kaart from trying a third bluff if he was considering that option. From Kaart's view, he knows a third bet on the river will only be called if he's beat, so why bother betting there?

Yeh, I know that may have sounded a little confusing, hope it helps tho.
__________________
1st place, March/April 2008 Sunday League

Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame.
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Post Number: 5 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
fonzerelli_79's Avatar
Owner
fonzerelli_79 is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,558
Shouts:
Credits: 5185.015
Default

personally id try and bet the same way as i was betting before
ie. if your betting half the pot its probably best to bet half the pot again

its a difficult one....if the bets too low it may look like a value bet and if he bets too high hes either gonna think that hes bluffing or fold because its too much of a raise.

id maybe have bet about 600-750 on the river
__________________
Texas Holdem Resources : Hand Rankings Terminology Pre Flop Odds Odds Chart
Poker Odds Calculator - Find out if you were right to make that call!

  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 12:28 AM
Post Number: 6 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
xtra's Avatar
Royal Flush
xtra is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,682
Shouts:
Credits: 7338.24858000002
Default

In NBKs spot I wouldnt have raised if I think you are going to do it for me.Nice check by the way Kaart
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 01:50 AM
Post Number: 7 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
wbtczn's Avatar
Professional Bubbler
wbtczn is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 631
Shouts:
Credits: 152.98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra View Post
In NBKs spot I wouldnt have raised if I think you are going to do it for me.Nice check by the way Kaart
I agree with xtra. You were building the pot quite nicely. NBK was taking a chance you wouldn't bet by checking the river, but the reward if you did bet was potentially to gain more chips.

How you didn't bet the river, I'll never know...a little inside information???
__________________
Proud member of the Woo Hoo crew with: Az Viking, Boiler, and The Zombills

"If it were me I'd bet everything...But that's me -- I'm an aggressive gambler; Mr. Vegas" -- Dewey Oxberger

DONK-the player who just took your chips -- xtra

as you will now be an "Accomplished Donk" -- SonnyChiba

Number of Royal Flushes: 2 -- Poker Room, Pokerstars
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 07:02 AM
Post Number: 8 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
xtra's Avatar
Royal Flush
xtra is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,682
Shouts:
Credits: 7338.24858000002
Default

As far as other situations it depends on who you are playing,more important to not overbet and make them fold.Some are fun to minimum raise or 2x ,for some reason you get alot of reraises at you
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 08:17 AM
Post Number: 9 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
PokerRef's Avatar
Go ahead...make my day
PokerRef is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 1,269
Shouts:
Credits: 6211.39
Default

Anytime theres a pair on the board you have to give respect to the possiblity of a boat so Kaarts check on the river was wise. Now NBK IMO should have led out with a value bet of 1k on the river showing Kaart he had maybe hit trip 6s, or his own flush, unless he put Kaart on PP 6s. If he did Kaart would have probably called and his check shows he would not have re-raised NBK and thus took down some extra chips.
Kaart is known for being an aggressive bettor and I'm sure NBK checked, hoping he would hang himself for a check-raise but Kaart made the right choice.
__________________
No More Free Rides!
No Room For Dead Beats!
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Post Number: 10 (Link This Post)   
Report this post!
NoBigKicker's Avatar
I Cry Like Phil Hellmuth
NoBigKicker is offline
Approved
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Currently Residing in Poker Prison
Posts: 2,771
Shouts:
Credits: 5291.21
Default

I have waited to respond to this post so that others could throw in their two cents first.

Kaart, thank you for the PM on this hand. I think we should be having more posts like these. It will benefit all of us to see what's going on from both sides of the table during a hand.

Here is what happened on this hand in my head. ( Scary, I know )

Just prior to this hand I was in a hand with jadie56. ( Sorry I don't have a HH because I'm at work ) I had 8-8 and raised 4x BB in the SB and he quickly called. ( No limper's, just us HU ) Flop came 10,4,4. I bet out 4x the BB and he quickly called again. Turn was a blank and I bet another 4x BB and he called quickly again. River was an Ace. He wins the pot after showing A-K for a bigger two pair.

He told me that I let him stay in the pot. I felt that his calls were not smart especially the call on the turn. He was risking chips fairly early in the match on a draw with only a few outs. He got lucky and I wasn't happy.

Now I get dealt this hand. Kaart just calls the BB and Rat limps in. Now we all know that Kaart is an aggressive player. He has already raised pre flop multiple times in this game with marginal hands, so I'm thinking that he might actually have a hand this time and is trying to trap me. (WRONG) That is why I checked the flop.

On the flop I hit a 10. I know that I'm way ahead now, so I'm going to turn the slow play back on him. ( I still think he has a high PP ) I check and he bets 3x BB, so I call.

On the turn comes a third spade. Obviously I didn't want to see an over card or a spade. Now I think I've screwed myself. (Nothing new) I check hoping to keep my loss this time to a minimum if he did have spades. He bets $450. I see this as an over bet and he didn't have spades, now he's trying to buy it.(WRONG AGAIN) So I call.

River brings another 6 and I got a boat. Now here is were the hand with jadie56 comes into play. Like an idiot I think here's my chance to regain some of those chips that I lost to jadie56. If I bet out Kaart is going to fold unless he has spades in which he might call, but if I check and he does have spades he will bet and I will raise resulting in more chips. (WRONG YET AGAIN) So I check only to have Kaart check as well.

I'm sure that Kaart didn't put me on a Full House. He's good, but that's a Daniel Negreanu call and nobody here at THF is Daniel. (Sorry Kaart) I think the only reason that he checked the river was because he was only Queen high with his flush. He could have only been worried about a higher flush. Now if he had the Ace high flush then I'm certain that he would have paid me off.

The reason I've added the information about the hand with jadie56 is to show how much another hand can influence a future hand. My mentality about this hand with Kaart was to regain chips from the hand I had lost previously to jadie56. That is something that you should never do. I know this, but I did it anyway. Overall it probably ended up costing me some chips. If I would have bet something on the river Kaart may have called, but by checking and hoping for a chance to raise, I got nothing more.
__________________
Sunday League Team Champions _ April-June 2006 _ Poker4Ever

Sunday League Champion _ April-June 2006 _ Poker4Ever
  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:57 PM. | Page copy protected against web site content infringement by Copyscape

  Latest THF threads : Add to Google Add to My Yahoo! Subscribe in NewsGator Online Add to My AOL

 
 
   A Texas Holdem Forums Development | Unique Skin owned by Texas Holdem Forums and optimised for a 1024x768 resolution and above
   Site design and content Copyright© of Texas Holdem Forums | It may not be reproduced without our consent
   Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.7.1. Copyright © 2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.