ripped off at empire

well, hey still refuse to discuss the issue with me, so it's time to tell the world what EMPIRE POKERr (one of my favorite sites) did and didn't do. i don't think a good reputation is worth losing over the few dollars they stole from me. anyway here's the facts:

a mysterious $10 extra appeared in my account, i wasn't sure at first if it was tourney money i had won that was just tardy in it's arrival or if i had just confused the amount in this account with one of the accounts on another site. i wasn't even sure of the exact amount the account may have been off, but it raised my attention as i felt it wasn't what i expected it to be. "hmmmm just a couple of bucks, no biggie" i thought, probably a refund from the tourney that was scratched when the system crashed i reasoned. off to the tables i went thinking no more of it. well it was one of those days where my even my best cards lost to lucky draws. i dropped the $10 and a few more in a blink, draining the account till my entertainment dividends replenish it the beginning of the next month. "oh well, i still have funds on other sites, and besides there is still the daily freeroll game".
about a week later i place in the money on a freeroll game,"yeah for me, a couple of extra bucks". time to go to work, off i go. later...that day or the next, maybe even two days later i decide to logon to sit-in on a $1 or so tourney. but to my surprise....no money in my account? so being curious i inquire. the response is rather impersonal and sort of canned, stating that i was awarded a bonus of $10 (for what i still do not know/and that i did not request, nor was i notified as yet of the award ), and that i had failed to play the required number of raked hands to release the award(period). now every bonus i ever received on EMPIRE's site was held pending release untill the required rakes were reached. only then would the funds become available and deposited into my account. "why not this mysterious one"? was it a new years gift to every account? i wondered, so i asked. i received the same canned reply.[i was awarded a bonus of $10 and that i had failed to play the required number of raked hands to release the award]. ok, no answer only a statement of their position. so i stated mine. i had nor requested this award, i was not aware i had received one, it did not survive long enough to rake any hands let alone enough to release itself anyway, and that the monies they removed from my account were funds deposited after the existance and quick departure of the awarded-now dead/defunked funds, that the removal of my money from my account was unauthorized, so therefore theft (or just bad bookkeeping). the reply was once again the same canned statement, still no personal attention to my inquires. their professionalism in ignoring any existance of a disputed claim was outstanding and still carries on till this day (except now they ignore me all together).

so i ask you: are the funds deposited on poker sites your money or the property of the site, that they allow you access to for the use of gaming?
if it is their property then it is a gift from you and they are justified in accessing you account at will and at their discression without dispute;permission; or disscussion. if the money is your property then it is THEFT!
LET's HEAR WHAT THE PLAYERS THINK OF THIS!
i beleive i still have the e-mail and replies saved from this (evidence) and will post them if anyone is interested. would also like to hear if anyone else has suffered similar experiences.
thanx ~outlaw~

__________________
~OUTLAW~

The $10 bonus was probably an initial deposit bonus...these are usually tied to raked hands before being released...but usually they are in a bonus account and not put into your normal account untill the raked hands are met.

On one site, I had won a freeroll and started using my winnings to play real money games...I had built up my account to over $1,000...when I tried to withdraw some...I was told that I had to deposit $25 first into my account since I never made an initial deposit...once I did make my deposit, the money was released without problems.

I have never played at empire...maybe other members here can tell you what is going on there.

empire poker is terible. there program wont load most of the time, and and i would never recomend them to anyone. i fell the top 3 best poker sites are pokerstars, pacific, and pokerrooms.with them you know what your getting into. other sites have there terms and conditions, hidden and are hard to find for a new user who is new to online-poker. Take royal vegas for ex: you get $10 free to sign up, but,its only a bonus till you make 1 deposit. without a deposit, averything you win with your $10 bonus becomes part of the bonus. Therefor $10 = 100 racked hands. you win $1000 with the $10 bonus without a deposit, then once you do make a deposit you have to play 10,000 racked hands from the date of your deposit to clear the $1000 for withdrawl. They should be more open about this but they take advantage of the players that join fast and play without reading the terms and conditions. "bottom line" they want the racks. I advise everyone to read the terms and conditions on all the sites you play on, they vary. Hope this was helpfull.

I have never played there either. but I have read the fine lines and some make it almost impossible to get your money and some are easy.like mario said MOST all ive seen and I play at 13 different sites require you to either deposit or play raked hands or both.

Sounds like a pretty shady situation over there at Empire Poker. It's a good thing I predominantly play at PokerStars and sometimes at PartyPoker (my first site to join). I recently had an issue with PokerStars because Mastercard made made a chargeback of $50 to PokerStars and they shouldn't have. It's a whole long issue I won't get into right here because it's about to be resolved anyway, but would just like to say that PokerStars has been very professional in handling this issue and have been in constant contact with me. Everytime I have had a problem with this, I emailed them and told them about it and I have received emails back in a timely fashion and have had numerous phone conversations with them. They are very personable and even though at first it seemed to me that PokerStars was taking advantage of me -- I was wrong in this conclusion and after dealing with them for about 2 weeks now, I patiently wait for my account to be unlocked and my play to continue as scheduled. I could have solved this earlier by just paying them the $50 from my account, but being a man of principle, the debt not being mine -- I will wait patiently until Mastercard pays PokerStars their $50 mistake. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that PokerStars, unlike Empire Poker is a credible site and will respond to you not with automated responses that can't be examined, but with real people who will talk to you in their emails and if you want, will talk to you on the phone. Think about investing some money there instead?

P.S. No I don't work for PokerStars -- lol