Tournaments

Doug,

You seem to be trying really hard to get people on to your site and I wish you well. I'm already with you, but my playing visits are rarer than either of us would like. You could see more of me. Have a think about the following points. Even if you only like one of them, it may help.

Some of us are tournament players and just don't like ring games. So the following comments will be biased in that direction. It may help you with the psychology of certain types of player.

1. I like SnGs, but waiting ages for one to start is a complete turn off. One lady waited over 24 hours! These are almost impossible to promote directly as they are simply what they are. You could try to experiment with sub $1 rooms. It might work, it seems to on the few other sites that do this. The alternative is getting more support for the MTTs as these are usually the same players.

2. Most players have very limited funds, sadly for you. You only have to look at most established sites with micro ring games to see the numbers there compared to higher levels. Me, I haven't had a job in a year, so you know which end I'm at! Most sites however have tournaments the lowest entry for which I can't afford, or if they do have ones I can afford to enter, they are re-buy tournaments which I hate (some love them, I don't, I can't afford the rebuys). So your list? I tried a couple of $2 ones, one of which didn't fill, but I don't do these too often anywhere else either, cash is short remember. I would like to do the $1 ones, but they are all satellites, there just aren't any straight $1 tourneys. I usually want to play and be done with it as I have other things to do at weekends, and "later today main events" are usually well after my bedtime, being in the UK.

3. Talking of bedtime, I mentioned this to your support team, but nothing happened. Those Cake Slice tourneys? They all take place at the same time of day. Guess when that is? Guess why I've never entered any so far? Would a little variety of times really be out of order?

4. Some sites count a percentage of tournament fees as though they were raked hands for clearing bonuses etc. Why would a tournament player want to come to your site just to be forced to play ring games he doesn't want to play? I came because of THF, but that is an exception not the rule.

5. As with SnGs, some sites do have less than $1 MTTs, 0.50, even 0.25. They seem to have no shortage of players for these, but they do have shortages for their big buy in tournies.

6. Your own freerolls are all satellites to later tournies. See my comment above about having other things to do. I understand why you do this and also why you don't run your own single event freerolls. But we all like doing 'em, even when we have a reasonable stash on a site. To my mind a better solution is the 0.00+0.01 single event tourney. The total freeloaders can't enter, they have to get lucky at one the multi-stage events, few ever will so good luck to them if they do, or they have to make a deposit. Hello? What was that word? Deposit? That's what you want isn't it? It also satisfies the instant result syndrome alluded to in the last sentence of 2) above. Oh, and you get a miniscule kick back, every little helps.

7. It wouldn't make any difference right now because you haven't enough players, then again it might be one of the reasons why you don't have enough players, but there are gaps in the schedule. Why do SnGs work? Because you don't have to wait. I get knocked out of a tourny early and what do I do? Try to find another one of a similar nature. Where will that be at the moment? Somebody elses site that's where. Remember, I'm not going to while away the time in ring games, I'm a tournament player, as are many others. Of course once your SnG scene picks up, hanging on to me in between tournaments will be easier.

8. Something I don't like about other sites I already mentioned is rebuy tournaments. Please, if you ever start these make sure they don't replace freezeouts at the same level of entry. Provide both, please, please nicely.

9. Another chicken and egg, you probably wouldn't get any entries until the numbers build, but it won't do any harm to show willing, I get bored with the lack of variety in tournaments. There are endless combinations of game type and limit type and stake size. Most sites make no attempt to exploit this. Some of us like pot-limit hold'em. Some of us would like to get better at Omaha hi/lo etc. And we don't play ring games remember?

10. Following on from that, I know many sites have difficulty getting people to play anything other than hold'em, or even pot limit hold'em. But some sites succeed. Some of the latter are simply down to vast numbers. But there is more to it isn't there? Exposure. Get people playing wider varieties by varying the freerolls (or 0+0.01s). a) they will try anything so long as it's free b) some will get to like the other games c) others will want to practice because damn it they got beat.

11. Long term one this, and the regulars here will kill me for mentioning it again! Spread limit. I'd like to say nobody else does it, but I found the b2b network does, but they are making a real mess of it. Hardly anyone plays because they made it too much like fixed limit, limits of 1/1/2/3. Ridiculous. Make it like a home game 5/5/10/10 or 5/5/10/20 and I would have thought there may be a niche in the market. An advertising campaign on those TV channels that regularly carry poker shows, "play your home game on line" sort of thing. There may be a whole set of new players who would bite that one. I know for sure there are existing on-line players who find fixed limit boring but pot and no limit intimidating, they've said so whilst we were playing. Maybe it wouldn't work, maybe probably it wouldn't work, but it would certainly be different and differences are what ad men dream of!

Cheers and thanks for Cake anyway.

Lots of good input, RD. I have to agree with this one. I HATE ring games. Perhaps it's because when I play ring it is usually lower buy-in limit games where people love to chase, but...ugh!
Another good point. I've started playing some Razz this week...I figure I get such low cards so much that this is some potential for me!!!

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Proud member of the Woo Hoo crew with: Az Viking, Boiler, and The Zombills

"If it were me I'd bet everything...But that's me -- I'm an aggressive gambler; Mr. Vegas" -- Dewey Oxberger

DONK-the player who just took your chips -- xtra

as you will now be an "Accomplished Donk" -- SonnyChiba

Number of Royal Flushes: 2 -- Poker Room, Pokerstars

I also hate ring games, but I love the site so I did play ring games for a little.

Ring games are where the big money is made. When they get a nice player base built up and a big deposit bonus Ill be there.

Another few thoughts for Doug.

SnGs again. When this scene takes off you really should have more finely tuned gradation. For example, I prefer full table SnGs. If I play the $1 ones it is going to take some time before I can afford to move on to $5 (done it before on other sites, so no snide remarks gents). However, if we had say $1/$2/$3/$5 and up (I hit the dizzy heights of $10 on one site!) then that provides an easy progression as the bank roll accumulates. This has the benefit for you that players move up to higher levels more quickly, thereby increasing the fees they are paying.

Gold Cards. Same comment as Cake Slices. Please give us some variety in the start times for these tourneys. They are all "way past bed time". Anyone would think you are trying to discriminate against players this side of the pond. I'm sure you're not, but......hmmm.

taking racings first post, i think if we could organise a twice weekly or even daily sng for thf members we would get a lot of bums on seats

for example, if we had a sng every night at 7pm or whatever just for thf members im sure it would prove popular

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Good idea. Missed the start of the league though, 30th Anniversary dinner, it took precedence!

__________________
Proud member of the Woo Hoo crew with: Az Viking, Boiler, and The Zombills

"If it were me I'd bet everything...But that's me -- I'm an aggressive gambler; Mr. Vegas" -- Dewey Oxberger

DONK-the player who just took your chips -- xtra

as you will now be an "Accomplished Donk" -- SonnyChiba

Number of Royal Flushes: 2 -- Poker Room, Pokerstars