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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Advice & Strategy > Beginners Table

general question about OUTS

Beginners Table

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Old 11-22-2005, 12:11 AM
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Default general question about OUTS

for instance if i hav KK and joe schmoe has AA do i hav one out or 2 outs? becuz i think ive heard it sed like if i hav a flush and straight draw thats 2 outs but more cards... if anyone could help..
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:23 AM
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Pre-flop is too early to start figuring str8 or flush outs...so you would look at the strength of your KK and have only 2 outs...once the flop hits you could then see if you have a broadway draw, king high str8 draw, flush draw or possibly even a Full house, str8 flush or royal flush draw.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 12:27 AM
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Crapshoot pretty much covers it, but for further information, check out this post:
http://www.texasholdemforums.com/showthread.php?t=3199 (Cowboys Pot Odds and Implied Odds Guide)
Also, if you have time, read over any/all of the guides on this page:
http://www.texasholdemforums.com/member_guides.php
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Old 11-22-2005, 02:36 AM
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you are about 4-1 dog

ac as v kc ks as slightly longer odds as there are no longer flush escapes. Outs are for the flop and turn only.
  
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:52 AM
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here is why you are a 4:1 dog. If you have KK vs AA the only way you can win anything preflop is if you hit another King (there are 2 in the deck, therefore you have 2 outs) Now the flop and turn can bring you more outs (straight or flush draws if applicible). But when you are KK vs AA just know you basically need 1 of 2 cards to give you the win
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:22 PM
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OK it sounds like the first thing you need to understand is OUTS refers to possible number of cards that you can draw to, to make a better hand. You don't know anything preflop when it comes to this, but at the flop you can evaluate how strong your hand is with what you see at the flop. I could go on and explain about your KK vs AA there but basically you don't want to see an A come out and you really need a K to come out on the board. How many K are left in the deck? Well theres 4 Kings and your holding 2 so there has to possibably be 2 K coming. Drawing for 2 outs is not so good.

Let me tell you a little bit more about OUTS, a better situation to be in is if you have 8 or 9 outs at the flop. Your drawing possibilities are better there, its also possible to be drawing for 15 or more outs.

Gutshot - 4 outs
Pot Odds - 10:1

A Gutshot is when you need to draw for 4 cards to make a better hand, this is also called an inside straight draw. Lets say you have A5 and the flop comes 34K. you have A?345, but you need a 2 for a straight, there are four 2's in the deck so you are on a Gutshot drawing for a straight.

Open Ender & Double Gutshot - 8 outs
Pot Odds: 5:1

An Open Ender and a Double Gutshot are the same that you are drawing for 8 outs to make a straight but one is easy to see and the other is a bit more difficult.

Open Ender

Lets say you have J10 and the flop comes KQ2. you are on an open ender because any A or 9 will give you a straight. 4x A + 4x 9 = 8 outs.

Double Gutshot

lets say you have 57 and the flop comes 369. This doesn't look good but its actually a good drawing hand, any 4 or any 8 will give you a straight. Same thing 8 outs.

Flush Draw - 9
Pot Odds: 4:1

Lets say your holding AK suited of spades and the flop comes 6s3s8h. Now there are 13 spades in the deck, you are now looking at 4 of them so 13-4 = 9 outs.

Monster Draw
Pot odds: 1.5:1 or better

This is the kind of draw you want to be able to see when it comes and know what to do when you get it.

lets say you have J10 suited of spades and the flop comes 2s9sQh now your on an open ender with any 8 or K to come for a straight, any 9 spades to make a flush, 9+8 = 17 outs. But you have to consider that 2 of those cards are already counted the 8 spades and the K of spades so you don't have 17 outs here you have 15 outs. 15 outs to draw to to make a better hand a straight or a flush. Now heres the thing, what if you can put your opponent on A9 and he has hit only 1 pair, a pair of 9's with an Ace kicker. Then that means your J10 cards also have live outs, thats 3 J's and 3 10's = 6 outs. If your opponent is in that situation this means you can even draw to either a J or a 10 and you could win. This means you actually have more than 15 outs, you have 21 outs.

This is a Monster Draw, this is what you really want, its a lot better than holding a Pocket Pair hoping to hit a 2 outer and make a set.

I know you were not asking about Pot Odds but it is relevant to outs when drawing. I won't go into it too much you can research it and I recommend you do. Esspecially if you plan to put real money down on the table to play with, you should not be doing that unless you understand Pot Odds. But I do need to say that above all the Pot Odds I have stated get chopped in half if its a race at the flop, or the turn.

Last edited by WiredDragon; 12-11-2007 at 04:28 PM.
  
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:16 PM
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I enjoy your posts dragon, you have been a nice contribution to the site already. However, please look at the date on the posts before you reply. Thanks, welcome to THF
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:22 PM
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Thank you rw..... respect
  
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