Note taking help

Ok, I tried taking some notes on players for the first time yesterday and I was surprised at how hard it was. I wasn't even playing in the game and it was tough. Clearly the time constraints of each hand, combined with my poor typing skills (I have to look at the keys), were making for pretty inefficient notes. Especially since taking the notes themselves was causing me to lose track of what was happening in the game.

Looking at it now, I'm pretty sure I need to either narrow the scope of what I should be paying attention to, or find a better way of taking the notes. Or both.

So, I was wondering if some of you accomplished note takers out there could give some advice as to the best way to start, or the most important things you take note of before the hand ends? And on the other side, I was also wondering if any of you have already worked out a shorthand system for quick note taking?

If nobody has, then somebody (I'd probly give it a try but doubt I'd do it justice) ought to, because it sure would be a whole lot easier to type a quick code to save time.

An example might look somthing like - s1b10x - which could mean: when he starts (s) with a premium hand (1) he bets (b) 10x the BB (10x). That way you wouldn't have to type all that crap out word for word, and wind up losing focus on the game.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

the note system is superb on pokerroom - you can simply colour code them - red for watch out etc

if your frequenting the same tables i think its essential you keep notes. I would reccomend pokertracker - it puts players into types of players based on the number of hands against them (eg those who see a small % of hands would be tight players and so on)

__________________
Texas Holdem Resources : Hand Rankings Terminology Pre Flop Odds Odds Chart
Poker Odds Calculator - Find out if you were right to make that call!

I just started playing on pokerrom, I'll have to check that out. None of the sites I've played regularly so far have anything but a blank page to scribble on. Nice to hear one site's cutting the leg work out.

Yeah I pretty much know I'm going to get it (pokertracker). Just a little hesitation on my part cause to me it will have meant that I am as hooked on poker as I think I'm getting, and there'd be no turning back after that.

i have no problem taking notes on pokerstars, i usually play a couple of multi tourneys at a time and still have time to take notes i just dont see the need to put what cards he/she has and how they play it etc, i just put in the date the tourney and if he is agressive,tight,plays rags alot, button player etc.. its a lot faster then putting codes that may mess you up in the long run...just a newbie opinion

The whole point of having a code is to save time. Granted you would have to learn it and know it well, but if you did, then it would be much faster than typing anything out, and could only help. Even you could just assign the letter t for a tight player etc. and bam, you've saved keystrokes. Of course this would help less keyboard savvy people more than others.

And the way I see it the more detailed the notes you can take the better, which I definitely want to start doing.

The only drawback of detailed notes is the time factor, which having a code would solve. There is a reason why stenographers use shorthand afterall.

While you're learning, making notes of other players should be kept simple... players online change too quickly, rotate out too fast... you're looking for obviously loose players, bluffers, patterns of raising and timing of raises... as bar says.

A better use of your time is to closely track your own hands that you play... take detailed notes... but use Excel or something else; keep track of all hands you played, what you held, what flopped, what you put in and what you took out. You'd be surprised to see how much money you can waste by calling with weakish hands that can't stand a raise... or getting in w/a weak kicker and getting beat when you flop top pair w/it...

You'll learn much more, much faster by reviewing your own play than by trying to take a lot of detailed notes on others.

Thx for the reply asabear, although I have an issue or two.

Simple notes is sort of what I wanted to avoid. I do pretty much frequent the same tables, and every time I see someone for the 4th time at a table I want to play at, I can't help thinking 'I should have good notes on them by now damnit'.

And I don't think anyone has trouble taking notes like "loose" or "tight", I just don't consider them good enough or even reliable. They're much too vague. They don't say whether a person is loose preflop or likes to call while chasing to the river etc. etc.

I guess I'm sort of an all or nothing type of person, and if I'm going to start taking notes at all, then I think I should learn from the start to take them as efficiently and jam packed with detail as possible. To me, it's that or why even bother to begin with.

And that's why I'm at an impasse. There seems to be no ready made note taking system that I could just study and learn (and thus avoid developing bad habits from the start). At least none that I'm aware of anyhow.

Agree to an extent, but if I want to analyze my own game I can request hand histories. Something you can't do (to my knowledge) on a player you're watching.

I agree and disagree. Ok, bear with me a moment....In all forms of competition (sports, war, chess) the modus operandi is to 'train yours' and 'study theirs'.

In war you train your own troops and study the opposition. Same with football, you do drills to train yourself while studying film on the other team. You don't study the drills you just did or the obstacle course you just ran. Why? Because the basics of what YOU should be doing are already known, while nothing is known with regards to your opponent. And in order for you to know optimally what you should be doing, you have to know what your opponent is doing.

Granted, my own play still needs a lot of 'training', especially in the area of pot odds and implied odds, which reviewing my own hands would be excellent for. That's a basic I haven't mastered yet and could use some drilling on. But I also think it's just as, if not more important, to start paying attention to the weapons my opponent has, or which passes he likes to throw, or when he likes to bring his queen out if you catch my drift. For me, this is the area of my game that is lacking most.

This is why I was hoping to get the advice of accomplished note takers, people who have the basics mastered and spend most of their time studying others, the way generals and pro-bowl quarterbacks do.

Sorry if I've been unnecessarily argumentative in this post, I just feel it's that important to start down the road of good note taking on your opponents.

Is there anything out there that will parse hand histories like Pokerstars.com sends you if you request it?

At the low stakes tables I'm playing on, and considering the number of players at these sites, I can hardly believe I'd ever see the same player twice I doubt I'll invest much time taking notes any time soon unless someone really stands out for some reason.

But I am interested in studying my own game - looking for my own mistakes - trends - etc. What are some of the best tools to use to do that?

detailed notes take a long time to observe and then write...but not only that, they also take a long time to read and you are in a game supposidly watching every move.

My sugestion is to do a Doyle Bronsun type of thing...where you give 1 point to early position players that play pocket 6's or lower...2 points to early or mid players that play unsuited cards where one of them is less than 10....2 points for early or mid players that play suited cards that would not make a str8.

What I do is have a sheet with circles on it at each seat position and just keep a tally there then add it to notes...if I'm in a ring game, I will put down their banks and their re-loads so I know how they stand later in the game.

You can make up simple notes for number of hands played, position, bluffs etc...but they should be in a numbers tally form.