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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Advice & Strategy > Beginners Table

Help a experienced LOSER out? analysis+ advice plz!

Beginners Table

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Old 03-13-2005, 09:01 AM
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darbebo is offline
 
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Default Help a experienced LOSER out? analysis+ advice plz!

Aiite, I'm sorry i am fairly new to the board, and I've playing poker in house games with friends and friends's friends since december, and i have not won 1 single hand except the 1st one with beginners luck.

In addition in the scenarios i posted below, there won't be pictures cuz i don't know how to get them so PLEASE bear with me.

1st scenario ....it was a home game, 5 bux buy in, 10 cents 20 cents blinds, 11 ppl total in one table (yea its home game, so we'll let it slide)

I followed some advice on a book or something, and so I don't play any hand that is not pockets , or above an ATs.....which....throughout half the game i didn't get any. So the only time i played was when i was in small/big blind. I even chugged KJ offsuit away. And when i do play, i usually fold early anywayz

Heres the scenario:

So from wat you can see i've been basically been conservative about it and people getting knocked out. Eventually there are 4 people left. And i was 1 of them.

As you can see, since i didn't play any hand b4, so i only lose like 50 cents or so for the blinds, but....2 of the players dominated most of the chips, so even tho i break even with my 5 dollars, i am shortstacked.

So right when 4 ppl is left, blinds up'ed and i think its 20 cents / 40 cents. and i got a A3s , so i call and raised , and people folded to me.

the play right after that is similar with me having a J# off suit and i bet semi high and people folded. Eventually one of the big stack lost to another big stack and so that person is the big-big stack haha. So making 1 person super big stack, me small stack, one semi small/medium stack.

However, after that, i got hands like 2-7 offsuit, 3-6, 9-3 offsuit so forth.
And finally i got a J9 offsuit. The board was 9-9-4 or something, i thought, great, treys, and then i bet high, 2 person called and the big stack reraised i called and the other person folded Next card was a 10. I raied again, and he reraised, and i go all in. He called. The next card didn't help neither of us, but it seems that he got 9-10 offsuit , thus making him a full house and i was out.

So i was thinking to myself the following question. I bet all the way after the flop, i even called all in, did i do anything wrong?

2nd, did my super-conservative style works? it IS true that i stayed till 4th place, but i was on short stack....i really don't know

3rd, what could i done better? (except by tells, cuz sometimes it's just hard for us beginners/experienced beginners to read still)

And let me tell you what happened next. So basically it is 1v1, and the one on short stack was a girl.

What i've been noticing is that the person in big stack is a solid/conservative player who WOULD bluff in SOME circumstances,...but...i can't tell when. Whenever i see him win, its either straight , 2 pairs, flushes, etc, the big ones.

And the story goes how the girl , as the blinds goes up to 50 cents/1 dollar, raised preflop, bet after flop/turn/river, and.....eventually took his all his money away!!!!!! However, the big stack DID try to call him on her bluffs, but...failed because the time that he does call on her, she hit big ones.

So here's another question, if i were the bigstack against a "verteran" late game bluffer, what should i do?

Here's what i think:
1. I mean, if i were getting 6-5 offsuits, 3-8 offsuits, i would certainly not raise pre-flop, UNLESS i am high stack with these cards.

2. If i am big stack, with these cards, and sometimes lets say 8-10 offsuit faced with a preflop raise and the blinds are already big, what should i do? and if i do raise and she calls, i MIGHT be getting myself in a bigger trap.

3. After the flop and if the flop is NOT favorable to me, should i bet first if i am the first to call? what if the person opens first? should i fold?

4. But what about instances where i will have a J-3 offsuit and i am raised preflop and a huge amount too? should i call? and what happens if the flop is NOT favorable and she bets? should i call? BUT if she checks to me, should i bet?

I can't stop thinking about scenarios, but I think i can sum it up to.....how do you know when shes bluffing if you can't really read and the flop is not favorable to you? Lets say you hold J 3 offsuit and the board has Ah Qc 5h?




Well, basically thats "scenario 1"
My second scenario is that i am playing a 3 player "pretend game" with my housemate, where losing 3rd place dranks shots of vodka straight up (silly, but eh) I fold if i have bad cards and i am on dealer. But one play i got pocket
10c 10h , and we have basically 80 chips each, 10 cents each chip. And blinds is 1-2 chips
So basically i am SB and so i call + raised 8 more chips and the big blind calls and the dealer folds. Flop comes unfavorable cards but , has 2 hearts and 1 spade. ( i seriously forgot wat the cards are exactly, but i don't think it matter for now, i think J, and 2 number cards ). So i raised again, i got called and re-raised and river comes another heart and i am at a flush draw. I raised again and he calls me all in. Before i decide, the BB shows his hand, pocket kings....i was in shock. I have 1/4 chance to draw a heard to beat him ( he has no hearts) but if not, i would lose and if i don't call i will be left with around 15-20 chips. But after thinking for a while, i folded, and the dealer turned over the next card for fun and it is NOT a heart, so i guess i am relieved...but did i do anything wrong in this whole play?


So again i am shortstacked and i got J3 of clubs and i called in. flop goes
Js 5d 2c and i call all in, the now big stack calls and turns out he has J5 offsuit and my backdoor flush didn't hit and i lost....

WHY!!!! WAT DID I DO WRONG!!

PLEASE HELP!
  
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Old 03-13-2005, 11:19 AM
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The best thing I see about your post is that for being inexperienced, you ask good questions. The truth is, there is no one answer. Be honest with yourself (which it seems like you are, for the most part), and take it from someone who knows-you can't learn it all real fast. It takes playing and studying and playing and studying and so on JUST to get familiar with the game, much less any good at it. If you're serious about your play you MUST know that it's going to take time AND money to improve. No two ways about it. Don't try to cram a bunch of info at once because you won't be able to absorb all the complexities that way. Get some good books-Super System, any Caro or Sklansky book, TJ Cloutier's hold em and hold em tourney books are good too. Give yourself some time to play AND read over and over. Apply what you've studied a little at a time and PAY ATTENTION. There are WAY too many little things about playing winning poker to be able to take it all in in a hurry (unless you're some kind of prodigy). And don't be too hard on yourself when you lose (because you WILL lose in this game, especially in the beginning). The members here are (mostly) very friendly and knowledgable about the game, and would love to give you some pointers. I think I'm a decent player, but I ALWAYS want to learn more and get better. I think that is an important outlook to have too, You can NEVER stop getting better, as long as you keep trying. SO...good luck to you. Look around the site. There's PLENTY of good stuff here. And welcome to the sickest, degenerate, depraved, most beautiful and sacred game in the known charted universe.
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:14 AM
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struggling to digest all this at once - god you make my posts looks small. Matro57's advice is ok but way nicer than I am going to be.

OK 1) I assume you are playing limit (you haven't made it clear) - it is clear you have won hands just not tourneys as you talk about times everyone folds. If you are goin to play superconservative you are never going to win big if your opponents are solid. Try to delay increases in blinds as despite what some excellent writers say you have probably got a better chance against your opponents if the blinds are kept down.

You say you never play anything less than A10s - that is really pretty tight. That means you will have to play the few hands you get very well or you will find yourself short stacked a lot as you describe. The key thing is POSITION though. You have to adapt what you play dependant on what the other players play. If you are 1-4 spots after the big blind what you are saying you play is find, but if noone raises by then there is a slightly wider range of hands you should play. Incedently if you are playing tight pairs below 10 are foldable in early position (1-4 after big blind in a 11 person table) the later after this the more hands you can play but you want to try to ensure 2 things 1) if you probably dont have the best hand pre flop you want something that it will be pretty clear post flop whether you can fold your hand as worthless or try to hide the big grin that you feel is forming on your face. 2) hands where it is highly likely you are favourite. You interprete the players before you on their actions (i.e. if a tight player raises early position you need something stronger than your standard opening minimum to consider calling but if a loose/crazy raises you could play at least your normal start hands if not a few others.

In terms of the first hand that you mention three things to bear in mind 1) you were unlucky dont worry too much 2) passing on the flop to check/ raise is a play you should have considered dependant on the style of your opponent. If you did this and he reraises you you probably must read him as holding the last 9 if not an over pair. Dependant on your reads on him you would either check to the river or bet but call raises from him. 3) don't worry too much about hands that were just unfortunate - you had the best of it B4 the turn. Thats enough for just now - hope some of this helps.
  
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Old 03-20-2005, 06:53 AM
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You're following advice from a book, which is the best thing you can do at first. You're on the right track, and soon you will develop your style for which hands you like to play and how much you're willing to bet, etc. Your play is average which is good. I know that doesn't sound right, but you're fine.
  
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:17 PM
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wow u either r just plain horrible or u r just extremely unlucky at the game i dont kno but either of them would suck id stop playing
  
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:00 PM
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You seem to be way tighter then is necessary and can be easily bluffed. Really playing between 30% and 45% of your hands isn't an overly bad thing.

A lot of the hands you mentioned just seemed unlucky

Really I would recomend reading super system as it will help you more then an response i can give.
  
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:48 PM
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Hello! so im thinkin....i am kinda new to poker and do you guys think its mostly luck or is there some skill involved in it as well ? for ex. when u bluff someone good so they fold i guess thats the only skill in Holdem eh?
  
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