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Go Back   Poker Forums > Texas Hold Em Rooms > Advice & Strategy

Where do I go from here?

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Old 11-13-2006, 03:55 PM
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Ok, this is a post asking for any advice on my game.

I think we all go through up and down periods, sometimes yes it's through bad-luck, bad-beats or maybe we happen to sit down with players who we fail to read. They may be poor players who outdraw you with no odds (annoying at the time but we like em really) or we get over confident and lose a hand to a good player who we've underestimated and we've got our thinking wrong.

I mainly play tourneys. I like the MTTs and the SnGs. I'm generally pretty tight at these and will loosen up/ play more aggressively as the field shortens.

I joined pokerstars recently intending to deposit $100 or so. My new drivers licence hasnt arrived yet so I couldnt deposit. Anyway, I swapped $11 with Sonnychiba and went form there. Playing small buyin sngs and mtts ( $5 and under with a couple of $10 sngs) I got my bankroll to $250+. I'd been playing a tight-aggressive game and I'm having pretty good success and have been pleased with my game on the whole.

I'm not sure what happend then. Over a week or so, I just couldnt seem to win an sng or get deep into in an mtt. I can be certain that I have had a bit of bad luck with the cards, missing my outs, getting in with the best and losing to worse etc but I'm wondering if it's more than that.

In the past I've not been an especially confident playing ring games and I tend to look for tourney play. I have been playing a bit more ring games in recent months. Have done ok at Jungle poker, making profit (5c nl usually) and maybe my game has srenthened in that area.

Back at Pokerstars my bad tourney results continued ( I actually seem to be making a better profit at Omaha HL and HORSE sngs than I am at NL right now)

Due to tourney server resets at pokerstars and also due to lack of time to play mtts this week, I've been playing some 5NL and 10NL ring games. I often enter two rooms with maximum buyins. I'm playing well and confidently, infact I felt at times that I've never played better. I'm not losing when I'm on a run of bad cards and I'm winning well if I'm getting good cards and often getting on a bit of a dominant rush in these games, whilst staying tight and avoiding playing over-loosely or recklessly. I'm not winning big money but after losing around $50 at tourneys in a week, I've pulled my bankroll back to $245 in a handfull of ring games.

I'm feeling confident at this level with my ring play. Infact I considered moving up a level since I'm greedy and want twice the amount of cash for my wins! I'll resist this urge for now - well - at least until I've had a drink ( I hope I've learned my lesson and I tend not to drink now when playing poker) I've never felt so confident before at ring games. Not over-confident, I just feel I know where I am and what I'm doing, and it's working for the time being.

My main conceren is about my tourney play. I think it's quite possible that after a good set of results in late october and early november I have become over confident and have changed my style of play accordingly. I think it's crtainly the case that whilst I do still consider myself a generally tight-aggressive player (I can be tight-passive early in tourneys) I feel that its's possible that I have been playing more on the side of loose-aggressive because of over-confidence.

I will certainly allow a little looseness into my game at these recent ring games. Many of the tables may have 6 or less players and you are often gauranteed many preflop limpers. So I'm quite prepared to jump in with anything at times and lose players with strong play on the flop. I'm not playing 'loose' at all but with stack considerations and when I'm showing down good hands regaularly, I can allow these plays into my game with success.

As I said, I'm not playing 'loose' as such I'm still tight and not throwing money away on stupid calls and poor odds but in comparison to my usual TAG style I've been moving a little in the LAG direction at times.

There are two things that might account for this. One is that over-confidence in my tourneys has promted a change in my play and the other is I believe that making a determined effort to improve my heads-up play recently, has increased my willingness to play some hands/in some positions which I might usually have thrown away.

Now, back to my main point: I'm reluctant to play any sngs's at the moment. I'm profiting at ring games ( which was always a weakness for me) but Ive been on a poor run at SnGs and Tourneys. I seem to have lost some confidence that I'm going to win at tourneys. I would normally enter an mtt and I'm confident enough that I will be there in with a chance at bubble time. After just a week of bad results, I no longer have that feeling right now.

I've been trying to play through it, but I'm at the stage where I just don't want to enter an sng ( unless it's a omaha or horse, where my expectations arent as high and I'm playing for enjoyment) because I feel I will have bad luck or I feel my play isnt getting rewards. SnGs have always been my main earner and I'm worried about what is happening.

Possibly, a small bankroll is also effecting my play at tourneys now. If my cash is heading below $200 I'm getting nervous and if I see that line on my sharkscope graph heading down instead of up I'm getting a little concerned.

Anyhows, I guess this is all a bit of a ramble here but I felt there are some points I wanted to bring to light and ask for any views or advice that forum members may have.

In writing this, maybe I've made some things clearer to myself and answered a few of my own questions, which is good, but I'd be appreciative of any ideas that you may have as to what my next move should be.

I'm happy enough grinding away at the small ring games but I enjoy the tourneys and want to regain my confidence to play them. I'm only talking about a bad run of a week or so but it's dented me.
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Last edited by 7letters; 11-13-2006 at 04:10 PM.
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 02:53 AM
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It seems you were using ring games to chase your tourney losses which is a bit of a receipe for disaster. On the plus side you are doing well in these ring games recently.

In terms of the ring games I would watch your role. However good you are in the ring you will run into problems if you dont employ good BR management.

Never worry about things like sharkscope stats etc. these things are a reflection of your play but only that.

In terms of BR managament a maximum of 1/20th of your BR (i.e. 12$) would be about the most you should be thinking of sitting down to the ring with UNLESS you are just doing it as a one off (long term ROR (rate of ruin) less relevant). This may seem tight but I wouldnt stray too far from this.

In terms of tourneys. if it was the poker your ring games would be sucking just now. The obvious solutons would be either 1) play ring games for a bit as thats what your doing well. 2) have a full break from poker for a week or so, refocus and play excellent tourney poker.
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 03:23 AM
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To start with (and I'm really not one for swearing but) great fucking post man, I have so much respect for ANY accomplished player (that's you) that has to balls to front up and ask "where am I at"......to give the reasons and the situation as to why you ask this question just goes to show even more accomplishment IMO.

I'm going to assume a bit here, and of course through doing so I may well be wrong.....however.....the limits you are playing at in SNGs is to high i.e. the $10 ones.......$250 roll made from $11 is good going no matter who you are......but what limits did you make this $$$$$ at.....????

What I'm trying to say here is, the run before you can walk syndrome thingy......to start a $250 sole roll is not enough of a B/R to be sitting at $10 tables and not be worrying about losing......you need more than this before you step up to these levels IMO......Don't get me wrong, you are by far a more than accomplished player that I have the up most respect for......I'm just wondering if the psychology behind you playing a $10 is different to say playing a $3 or even a $5 SNG......and if it is......then stick to playing the $5 ones and winning at them.......

It's kind of hard what I'm trying to say but I feel/think I am pretty much at the same level as you bud......so I'll give a break down of my weekends play and see what you think......

$10 SNGs played 7.......two 3rd placings

$10 180 SNG.....No placing

$5 SNGs 5 played......two 1st.....2 2nds......1 3rd

$4 180 SNG......5th placing

$3 Turbo Horse....Omaha H/L.....NL holdem....never out of the money.

So yeah it frustrates me to F**k that I'm not clearing up as much in $10 SNGs as I am in the lower limits......why.....wtfk......my B/R on stars is back up to around $250.....all won from the lower level buy-ins.....and would of course be far more if I placed in the $10 ones higher than I have.....but I haven't....so I'm not ready for them.....just yet.....after 3 years of on-line play.....and believe you me....I know I can play this game, but it's not happening for me yet at them limits........and maybe...just maybe it's because I know at $10 level I only have 25 games to play and if I don't win....I'M SKINT.....not good for any B/R.......

Your a great player letters and fun to have at the table.....for now I say stick with what makes you happy, as a happy poker player is a good poker player IMO.....you have no reason at all to lose confidence (well except you can't beat me at horse...lol ) stick with what you are doing.....stay at them levels for a while longer and then give stepping up another bash.....but leave the $10 alone for now and just stick to being successful at what you are doing......as for the MTT placings etc.....if you are playing expecting to win/make the money, then you need to change that ASAP.......as the best person in that game is the one with all the chips at the end......up until then.....you are all equal and no better or worse a player than the person sitting either side of you.

Try satellites….I know I am….heh

Gl either way bud!

Yet again great post, thought it deserved a well thought about reply (honest I did)


As always this is just IMO (J/X )

EDIT Bens post wasn't there when I started to write mine........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottishben View Post
Never worry about things like sharkscope stats etc. these things are a reflection of your play but only that.
Would of said this also......sharkscope is for you to use who you playing against......not for yourself......I've busted out as many with better stats than me as I have one for ones who's stats are not as good as me.....you should check out some of the class player stats on here from time to time.....that should install confidence in ya'.....lol .
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Last edited by SonnyChiba; 11-14-2006 at 03:40 AM.
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 06:22 AM
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question for sonny why do you think a $10 sit is too big a buy in for a br off $250 i think you are being way too conservative there
back to 7 post you say your on a bad run in tornys and sits 7 days is not long enough to say its a bad run these are the normal ebbs and flows you will go through as a poker player
where you need to go in your game is easy play where you feel most confident if thats ring games just play there for a while play the odd sit or mtt to see how you do
some time ago i made a post about confidence i think this is a most underated thing in poker playing things your confidant at makes for easier playing you make instant decisions you dont try and out think yourself you think you going to win. And that seems to transfer itself to the cards lol
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyboy62 View Post
question for sonny why do you think a $10 sit is too big a buy in for a br off $250 i think you are being way too conservative there
I don't think that's a at all conservative BB......I don't deposit never have, never will (I hope) and by reading 7s post and what I know of him neither does he much......it was my $11 trans that started him on stars, such as myself it was a win on CDpoker......but any B/R that I have anywhere has come from freeroll beginnings.....

When you start at freeroll level then move to micro games....50c, $1, $2 not $5 or $6 yet and you play them for a long while, do well and build a roll up you will start to play at the $5 games and as on stars the £3 turbo's and although $5 on stars in under the "low limit" tab, to me I feel playing $10 is stepping up a level into what I would regard true low limits and therefore no longer micro.....also I feel in the UK $10 converted is over £5, the first time UK players start playing a game for a note and not just change are all contributing factors as to why I feel $250 is not quite enough to start at $10 tables.........

So yes you can take hits at $10 SNGs with a $250 B/R.....but I feel more often than not after a few hits you will find yourself back at lower levels $5-$3 in order to get your roll back up.......where I would like to be....is to be able to play $10 tables......take a losing streak of 7 games and still be able to play at them tables the next time without worrying that I have depleted a quarter of my B/R. I would rather build a far more substantial B/R at $5 level etc first then when I move to $10 tables I would hope to remain at them levels before I move UP again rather than down......

It's just my way BB....and of course only my opinion bud......
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Old 11-14-2006, 09:53 AM
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Thanks to all of you for your replies.

I wrote 5NL and 10 NL in my post- when of course I meant 5cNL and 10cNL when referring to ring games. More often than not I'll sit down with $10 at one or two ring game tables.

My SnGs or MTT are mostly $5 or less buyins. Occasionally, after a good win, like many of us do, I'll try a bigger buyin. I havn't played many $10 sngs and like Sonny said it does often feel a bit expensive for my bankroll. Not overly stretching it but it's towards my limits. I'm playing better and more comfortably with $10 at a ring game or $5 at an SnG, than I do with a $10+1 SnG.

I think maybe my post was a little premature - after just a week - but those results have indeed knocked my confidence and willingness to enter tourneys.

You know the thing I'm sure. You think' Ok, I lost a few sngs there, I'll win in the next - and you don't- so you leave it for the night. The next day you lose again. You just 'know' you will get paid in the next one! but you lose again. It doesnt take too long for you to wonder wtf is going on lol

I was just after a bit of advice and a few pointers. Good advice from all of you there and I need to digest it all and get back to you.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:58 AM
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thanks for replying sonny like you i have never made a deposit my start came from selling playchips and i have never gone broke since i have been close twice i have had my last money in a game and pulled out a win
in all that time i have stuck by the 10/15 buy in rule i dont know the equivelant for ring games as i dont play a lot off ring games
the reason i responded to your post was a lot off my poker friends think my br managment is very concervative but your makes mine look like i play fast and loose lmao
to go down a differant road 7 i have found no differance in playing levels in sit n gos from the 5 buy in all the way up to the 30 buy in if you can consistantly win 5 buck sits you will consistantly win up to the 30 buck level
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:59 PM
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part of BR management is assessing how consistant you are, how liable you are to tilt and how profitable you are. Someone who say KILLS 5$ 1 table sngs would need fewer buy ins than someone who makes and ROI of 5% and has huge swings within that. Also on your willingness to redeposit. I generally put 50$ into an account at a time but if this is backed by 2k-4k in neteller then I dont mind playing in larger buy ins than the 50$ would allow (its not my true bankroll) according to the BR rules i am talking about
  
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Old 11-14-2006, 01:37 PM
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Possibly it's just a subconscious thing with me Billy. With my current bankroll, I just feel more comfortable playing say at a $5 sng than I do at a $10. For some reason I can take four losses at $5 easier than I can take 2 losses at $10. I don't know why.

I'd like to build my bankroll a little more if I can before a $10 sng becomes my usual buyin. I just feel a little too eager at the $10 to play my true game just now.

Much as I'd like to, I don't have much money spare on poker. The deposit I was about to make at Stars would of been the first time I've deposited there. I'm something a gambler by nature. I'm not one who goes looking for gambles, but if I'm at the side of a track, or at the side of a table in a casino and I have money in my pocket - that money is going on - if I lose then there's always a tomorrow and I'll try and sort it out then! lol

With Poker, I'm being a good boy and to my best ability I'm learning to manage my bankroll. It's more about the game than the money really anyway if I lose then I can't play at that level again until I deposit and I don't want to deposit.

I'm not disagreeing at all in what youre saying though. I'll take it all in. I also agree with your comments about confidence.

I generally tend to think at the moment at 20 times max buyin for a ring game and 5% of my BR for a buyin is about ok. This does seem conservative when I take into account what you said. In the ring games I might often play two rooms or at least to begin with. So I'm a bit above my BR limit. For a tourney I should therefore feel comfortable as both yourself and Ben say buying in for a $10+1 sng.
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:33 AM
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Sorry, I hant got back to you on your post Sonny. I hadnt forgotten, I just thought I'd leave it a short while and see how things go. I played a couple of sngs and got ITM in my first 2 - had a little bad luck on showdowns when I had the best hands.Anyway, things felt a little better. Been a bit up and down since then and havnt had time to play any MTTs.

Yeh I've been looking at the satellites too. Have they changed them recently? I couldnt find much to my liking today at the sats but I think I'm gonna be givin em a go too.

You said some nice things in your post, thanks Sonny. You're a good player too m8.

I wouldnt consider myself accomplished yet as you say. There's holes to fill in certainly and I'm looking to improve all the time. I have good days when I shine and also dull days where I'm fiddling about and making mistakes. I guess most of us do.

It's an over-used expression, but - it's all good.

(well it's all good apart from you getting lucky at a couple of Horse games - I was robbed of my first place against you heads-up and the other one you scabbed a win as I went easy on you because I was playing TWO HORSE sngs at the same time. I had a far away look in my eyes for two days and apparently was mumbling and twitching in my sleep - didnt know whether I was in Omaha or Kansas.

OK, I'll take it back...you played very well.

As for too many $10 sngs. I understand what Bill and Ben said ( if you remember the TV programme - no pun intended) but I'm siding with you on this one for the time being. If I go 5 or 6 games without getting paid I'm getting pretty sick... and $66 is a big chunk out of my roll. I probably wouldnt play a 7th $10 and I would likely drop down to $5 or $3, for fear of losing another $11.

Even when my bankroll is healthy. I do quite enjoy the $3 turbos actually. Theyre fairly new to me. Theyre fast and ..well a bit weird at times but they don't take long if youre in a hurry and it's also a good way of enjoying a bit of HORSE and OHL8 without risking too much.

Like you Sonny, I don't deposit. My bankroll is at stars and spread around at other sites. I can't even remember where some of it is now. I deposited a long time ago at AP but lost that. The rest has come from freebies. I've always played cards and played regularly for money when I was a little richer. In recent years I just saw poker as an enjoyable pastime - but the more I play and the more I learn - the more I want to learn and play. It's taken over a bit. Maybe too much really. My friends and family like to have a little dig at me sometimes and I really must stop giving Euca detailed hand histories and analysis of players so much. When the check-out girl at Sommerfield's overhears things like 'she had a big pair ..and I flopped a big straight..and banged in a big raise' I get the feeling she thinks I'm speaking about something altogether different.

Anyway, it's busines as usual. Not had too much time to play really. I shall tinker around and try to build my bank up and maybe start depositing a bit more and getting a few bonuses at a later date. Chrimbo on it's way and if should get lucky before then my cash will be thrown at the big fat bearded fucker.

gl m8

p.s things can be taken the wrong way on here can't they. If anyone happens to be carrying a few pounds of excessive weight around their midriff and has facial hair- I didnt mean I'd be joining your table and you arent a fucker.
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