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poker idol responses - round 1 - folding KK preflop Advice & Strategy  | 
11-11-2006, 04:31 PM
| | | |  poker idol responses - round 1 - folding KK preflop
here is the question:-
Very often I see debates about when if ever Aces (AA) should be thrown away in a tournament but Kings get less treatment. When if at all should KK be folded preflop in an online tournament? Quote: |
I will not fold KK 99.9% of the time preflop. But there are a few occasions where it would be smart to fold it. But most of the time, if my opponent has AA, i tip my hat to him, because people will play any pocket pair for an allin sometimes, and they will play AK like its AA, so it can be hard to determine if they really do have the rockets. However, if I am a middle stack and the Chip leader raises, i reraise, and another big stack moves all in. I can be near positive one of them is playing AA, and although tough, i will fold KK. Two big stacks wont risk a nice chunk of their stack, with two big raises/allins, with jj or lower, and one almost for sure has AA.
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There is only one way that I could fold pocket kings pre-flop and it is this. I would be playing in a satellite where the top 50 players qualify and there are about 55 players left and I am sitting with an average chip stack. I am dealt pocket kings (in any position) and anyone ahead of me makes any type of decent raise I will automatically fold my kings. If this were a regular tournament then I would definatly play my kings because I would be trying to win the tournament, not just finish in the top 50.
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For a start I'd say it's very difficult to put KK down preflop. It think it would possibly be an easier task to fold KK in a live game, where you might have a better read on your opponent or a tell to help you, than it would be to fold it online.
So that brings me to my main point, which is: you need a read on your opponent(s). I think you would have to have your opponent down as a very tight player.
I can think of maybe a few scenarios that I think would fit the bill. I won't bring stacks into it. Let's just say you are even stacked with your opponent both of you have with good/big stacks.
1) This very tight player UTG limps. You raise say 5xBB and he raises his stack. I think you could fold KK there.
2) Your raise UTG and a very tight player re-raises. You re-raise again and he makes the 4th bet. If you know enough about him, I think you could possibly put him on AA and fold it. Or similarly, it's been raised from early and then re-raised and the very tight player is the re-raiser.
3) It's the start of a tourney. Let's say its a big buyin and deep stacks. Someone puts their whole stack in preflop. I wouldnt want to risk my whole tourney there on anything less than AA and I would think a fold could be seen to be correct.
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Don’t know that I would ever fold KK. In the beginning, I doubt I fold it as the early rounds are for trying to accumulate chips, and the only time you’d be behind is AA and the odds of that are long. The only time I may fold is late in higher buy-in tourney ($100+). These tend to have better players and in a later round if I have a read on someone that they are tight and reraise me quickly, I may fold. A tight player with an immediate raise usually means goods, and I would fold then
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I beleive folding pocket kings in the middle stages of a tourament, when you are a deep stack, and so is your opponent.
When you both have over 100 BB's, and the player is playing extremly tight, and you are playing a fairly solid game.
If you where to get into a situation, where he
raised you re-raised, and he pushed all-in. Folding here wouldn't be a horrible mistake, he could very easily have aces, and
thats what he is represting. Even if he has one ace, he will win 33% of the time. You will still be sitting on a large stack,
and probably have a ton of confidence after folding.
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The only time I can see throwing KK away is when there is 4 or more players allin in the the hand and 2 or more of them have you covered,while your stack is average or above.Too many ways to lose VS. ways to win and in this case ,folding the KK may get you farther than playing it.
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Laying down Kings is hard to do but when you lose with them a couple of times you know it's weakness. Early in a tournament if it doesn't cripple me severly I would call an All In against anyone no matter how many players are in the pot. If the hand can knock me out I will call against one player but hardly against 2 players because at least someone is playing the ace. In the endgame I would call against anyone regardless of players in the pot and regardless of my chipstack. If I lose, so be it.
| sonny missed the deadline but says Quote: |
When you should pass KK pre-flop.....quite simply when u feel it's right to.....I know I won't, I'll go up against AA with my KK all day long, it's the 2nd best starting hand you can get.....maybe, just maybe if there is a hell of a lot of action before you, you could lay it down, but then they may be all holding an ace which just makes your hand all the more stronger......play KK all-in regardless and if you lose at least you went all-in with the 2nd best hand possible.
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11-11-2006, 04:40 PM
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very hard to say everything folks wanted to say in the word limit but now there is more of a chance.
Personally I feel KK is very hard to fold preflop. If you read someone as have AA or a strong chance of AA then folding is good. If you and your opponent are huge stacks in a tourney then there may be tournament justifications in folding even if you put them on a broad range of holdings. Say you are at final table and you and your opponent have 90% of the chips for instance. Also in satelites maximising your chip stack is less important than avoiding busting out and there could be times where folding KK is the correct play.
that would be roughly what my answer would have been...
I dont mind getting involved with several opponents when I have KK (as long as i feel there are plenty of other hands people could have than AA) but there would be times where i would feel that the extra chips for winning were not worth the risk of either facing AA or being outdrawn | | |
11-11-2006, 05:09 PM
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I will like said in some answers, almost never fold KK preflop, 99% of the times i won't. I think it depends alot on the situation in the tournament, If you have a good stack and some other top stake guy goes allin i would fold if it was late in a tourney and the blinds were low if you look at my stack. If it's a seat tourney and it's close to the seat and you have a good stack, fold it. If it's not against someone short. Same if the bubble is closing in and you have a decent stack you could fold to a large bet or allin. I know you should aim for the win but you still want some guaranteement of some money back in the end.
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11-16-2006, 04:41 PM
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For me not matter what it would be extremely difficult to lay down KK preflop. I think the only way that I would is if I knew my opponet had a hot seat where no matter what he/she couldn't loose. | | |
11-17-2006, 02:34 AM
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well some idiot might go in with 22 and hits it on the flop!!!!! you might be out 1st hand or in the tourny period !!!!!!!if you were in a 1 mill tourny .fold to keep ur chances alive !!!! the chances of some 1 hitting an A is good i recon fold ......deponds on the amount of chips you have RIGHT | | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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